[FFML] dredging up the old (reply to an ancient letter)

[DB Sommer]

Nevermind, found it.

On 3/15/2011 1:00 AM, mccrowe wrote:
> Oh DB, don't go down this road.  Reading the archives is fun, but sooner
> rather than, later madness will consume you.  Madness, I say.
>
> However, I do notice that Nick is still writing, in case you'd want to post
> this as a No Dominion review on his ff.net site. :)
>
> I haven't read the fic, but he might fire back with his TASS award for it.
>
> -mccrowe
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 5:26 PM, DB Sommer<sommert at consolidated.net>  wrote:
>
>> Heh. In going through the old emails from *years* ago I realized I never
>> replied to this missive from. I doubt there's enough interest to create any
>> controversy, hopefully. But despite the years gone by I should have
>> responded and am doing it now so it's not something I feel I left undone.
>>
>> Nick Leifker:orm
>> [FFML] [critiques and other stuff] A most interesting day...
>> From: Nicholas Leifker<nightelf at thekeep.org>
>> Date: 2002-04-30 09:27:22+00:00
>> View Raw
>>
>> Well. That was fun...
>>
>> Let's see. DB accuses me of bashing;
>>
>> % Actually I should have said 'the actions were identical to those of
>> someone bashing a character'. Yes, there actually is a difference. And no, I
>> was unable to discern the difference initially. Now I do. I would not call
>> it bashing: just very poor writing when you're capable of better.
>>
>> moreover, he does so in such a way
>> that I cannot honorably defend myself at first.
>>
>> % I always kind of wondered about that 'honorable' part, since Nick did a
>> fine job of defending himself. I disagreed with nearly everything, but he
>> did defend himself in an articulate manner. It could be I'm just not seeing
>> something about it, though, so I'll concede him that.
>>
>>   And people wonder why I
>> get upset...
>>
>> % No more than people wonder why i get upset :) I think we simply upset one
>> another.
>>
>>
>> (sigh) Oh, well. I don't care anymore. I've seen similar petty
>> tactics used by Ukyouphiles and Akanephiles back in the days of Thy
>> Inward Love, Bitter End, and Iris; it's just their form of little
>> censorship, trying to get their versions of characters up regardless of
>> canon.
>>
>> % Now this is... insulting. Very. I read the canon too. Your interpetation
>> is stretched to say the least, in outright contrast to the source material
>> in many places. Will get to your 'points' below that you mention. nice try
>> though with the  'I have proof and you don't' tactic.
>>
>>   I'm just saddened to see it from a group of fans that I'd held
>> in some esteem for not stooping to the tactics used then.
>>
>> % I also love the victimization here on your part. 'People disagree with
>> me. In fact whole groups are out to get me. I'm a victim of them. Boo Hoo.'.
>> I don't think I've ever resorted to that sort of tactic about groups, though
>> there are individuals who quite gleefully disagree with me vehemently. Ask
>> Don Granberry for details :)
>>
>> Just as an aside, the Knights of the Black Rose and the Church of Ranko
>> and Ryouga still haven't found reason to be upset with me. Give me a
>> few weeks; I'll find something. ^_^
>>
>> Now, for those who demand explanation... I apologize if this comes in
>> one letter; there's too much to answer everyone one letter at a time.
>>
>> Yes, it is canon.
>>
>> % No, it isn't. (See below)
>>
>> The extremism of Amazon law comes glaring through
>> from Shampoo's first appearance;
>>
>> % I can't ever recall it taken seriously in the series, though. I guess you
>> can say it sort of is in Shampoo's first story arc, but after that no one
>> acts like its glaringly extreme after it, especially the Amazons in
>> question. And yes, this is after reading the series. None of the R1/2
>> characters act like its anything to worry about (you think Cologne would
>> have tried *something* to force the issue if it was so deadly important)
>> Outside of the her first appearance and the Reversal Jewel arc, (which was
>> Ranma putting a noose around his own neck) she doesn't, and actually helps
>> him at times. And it was never depicted that the law has people going on the
>> homicidal rampage Nick describes (this is in reference to 'No Dominion'
>> BTW.)
>>
>>   Shampoo's potential for demolition
>> comes through both at the beginning and at the end.
>>
>> % Well, demolition, sure. But all of the fighting characters are like that.
>> So I agree.
>>
>> The idea that
>> Cologne dunked Shampoo as punishment is simple: the ghoul had to have
>> known about Jusenkyo's properties. Sending her there for retraining
>> could mean only one thing.
>>
>>
>> % That she didn't know what the cursed springs actually did. That is also
>> easily interpeted from the source material. So while I actually am more
>> inclined to agree with Nick that it was outright punishment, I disagree with
>> there being more than one interpetation.
>>
>>
>>
>> As to whether Shampoo threatens Ranma in 38
>> for her own purpose or on Kiima's orders is a matter of debate;
>>
>> % True. I lean toward the idea that while you are under someone's mind
>> control, and once released from it your actions immidiately change, that you
>> probably weren't operating in your right mind before that. It might have
>> also have been free will. So I don't argue that.
>>
>> personally, I don't care, as long as both possibilities are there.
>> Sure, the portrayal in this work isn't flattering to Shampoo;
>>
>> % In the same sense decapitation is 'sort of a wound'. She's solely
>> depicted as a source of pure unadulterated evil who deserves the fate of
>> being left in a heap of broken bones. Yes, the fact this is all done from
>> Akane's POV is a limiting factor. Nonetheless we are given no other
>> possibility that Akane's POV is anything other than correct, so the reader
>> is forced to assume it is. There is nothing to imply 'reading between the
>> lines' needs to be happening.
>>
>> given
>> what's gone before, could you ever see Akane seeing Shampoo in a totally
>> favorable light?
>>
>> % Let's see, Mousse tried to turn her into a duck in his first appearance,
>> yet she  bore no grudge. She's been kidnapped, drugged, attacked, held
>> hostage, embrarresed, humiliated, and a host of other bad things happen to
>> her at nearly every adversarial characters hands multiple times throughout
>> the series. Held grudges against any of them? No. Her forgiving nature is
>> one of her most favorable character traits. So absolutely: it's what she
>> does. It's almost as much a part of her as Ranma's competitive streak is to
>> him. The idea that you find her ability to forgive Shampoo in a favorable
>> light after Mount Phoenix astounding makes me wonder how close you actually
>> read the series yourself. It's absolutely in her character and the pattern
>> she's followed to date.
>>
>> % Now let me add if Nick wants to say the bombed wedding was the straw that
>> broke the camel's back on Akane forgiving everyone all the time, I can
>> believe that with very little  character twisting. But citing her holding a
>> grudge as part of a 'canon' argument? Ah, no. I don't buy it.
>>
>>
>> The argument has come up from those who concede the canon argument that
>> 'wouldn't it be better if it wasn't in, or if J. Random Character did
>> it?' My answer is, simply, no. Conflict happens; it what develops
>> characters. No conflict means shallow characters.
>>
>> % One of the points I raised is that this is not conflict. There is no
>> tension. Everything is pointed out after the fact. It's has all the conflict
>> of a passing remark. It does not deepen Akane in the slightest. Every bit of
>> Shampoo could have been cut (just as Kodachi is never mentioned in the
>> entire piece), and no one would have felt anything was missing from the fic.
>>
>>   Besides, some sort
>> of climax must be reached with the fiancees regardless. That's the
>> powderkeg the characters are dancing on; once Ranma makes up his mind,
>> it's going to explode.
>> And, with the ingredients listed above, the
>> possibility of Shampoo seeking Akane's life is quite possible.
>>
>> % Except, (and here's the most damning part of your whole 'but it's canon'
>> argument which you rely so heavily upon.) We know *exactly * what would
>> happen if Ranma tried to marry Akane: It's called vol 38. Yes, Takahashi
>> wrote it out (albeit, an unsuccessful attempt at a wedding) but  an attempt
>> nontheless. So we know how the characters react to the situation, having
>>   you know, gone through it once already. What you wrote was not remotely it.
>> Shampoo did not turn into the homicidal maniac trying to decapitate Akane
>> right in front of Ranma  you depicted. She bombed it, right alongside the
>> curiously absent Ukyou from your story, with a decided lack of fatalities or
>> even maimings. Damaged Ranma, but  Ukyou was helping Shampoo with it, and
>> combined they still didn't do any more damage to him than when Ryouga
>>   learns a new technique.
>>
>> % So Nick, you changed things drastically from the canon. Of course,
>> ooddles of fanfic  does this (boy, have I ever  done it). Hell, it would be
>> boring if everyone wrote the same thing over and over again. What one of the
>> goals as a writer to do when changing it though is to provide an explanation
>> to the reader why these changes occurred. Good writers do this (with varying
>> degrees of success at times, myself included) bad writers don't, or fail
>> miserably at it. I can see a number or scenarios that take Shampoo down the
>> path you want: You used none of them. There is no explanation for the
>> changes: she just turns  homicidal and it's treated as though it's perfectly
>> normal for her (yes, Akane's tone does  indicate this, as does her hatred of
>> Shampoo in every instance you use her). Yes, the POV you used limits things,
>> but as a writer, a good one, you have to at least try to explain it and you
>> seemed astounded anyone would feel you need to. And no, saying "there's a
>> really good reason for the change, I just can't bother to explain it to you'
>> is not a valid technique. It's a cop out. If anything, that could be used
>> for any seeming OOC behavior in a story which would make even the worst of
>> writers not bother with explaining the personality change. Just assure the
>> reader there's an off camera reason and move on with Soun having sex with
>> Kunou.
>>
>> % As to many readers not raising an eyebrow to it. To a large degree it's
>> fanfic convention and a lot of bias (Aside: You want to see irrational
>> hatred of a character folks? Check out some of the venomous bile slung in
>> the archive's earlier days in various Shampoo threads. A lot of them are
>> writers that were' big names' at the time, so you can see where fanfic
>> convention shaped a lot of biases.), which you followed to a 'T'. DNR/DNU
>> was one of the earliest works that established this pattern and many writers
>> followed until people use it as a guideline more than the actual vol 38.
>> What I would have loved to see was Ukyou in that role of homicidal wedding
>> crasher. Of course that would have raised a hue and cry, and not just the
>> fans of her. In fact, you could have actually provided Akane explaining the
>> behavior with something along the lines of:
>>
>> "Akane looked down at the battered chef. Apparently after living three
>> quarters of her life fixating on Ranma and seeing her chance at him really
>> and truly lost, she had finally snapped. Akane rubbed her throat at what the
>> very sharp blade of that spatula had almost done to her.
>>
>> % I not only changed the character with no problem, I provided a reason for
>> the behavior using Akane's POV in a couple of lines. Some readers might not
>> buy it, but at least it's an effort. Hell, it was easy and off the cuff
>>
>> One other thing: never tell me to pull my punches.
>>
>> % I don't know as anyone did that.
>>
>> As for it being bashing... DB knows my record; he should know better.
>>
>> % Clarfied above
>>
>> I'm generally known for giving flattering portrayals of the China Gang,
>> especially Shampoo and Cologne.
>>
>> % Actually if I recall Nick's works that I did  read, no, no they weren't.
>> I suppose if the reader comes from the Bader school of 'I like Akane just
>> fine, as long as she's treated like the violent gorilla she is', it might
>> be. But as someone that does like the characters that was not the impression
>> I got.
>>
>> For him to even insinuate that what I
>> wrote is bashing is beyond ludicrous. I should possibly ask for the
>> removal of 'Borrowed Time'
>>
>> % I believe this is the one that gave her a 'gracious death', because of
>> Ranma's actions and nothing bad happened to him (I believe it glossed over
>> the fact when he defeated her 'officially' in the Reveral Jewel arc he knew
>> exactly what he was doing,)  Umm, yeah, that's really... favorable.
>>
>> % Actually no, it explains a lot. A whole lot. Even more than the words you
>> used earlier.
>>
>>   from the various archives out there; maybe
>> then he can convince everyone that I'm actually out to slander Shampoo's
>> name.
>>
>> The possibility has come up from Nidoking that I should add some
>> explanation in my work as to why Shampoo did it. At the risk of
>> sounding rude, there are times when this tactic is acceptable, and times
>> when it's not.
>>
>> % When it's OOC behavior like this, yeah, you do need to or it's poor
>> writing.
>>
>>
>> This definitely falls in the latter,
>>
>> % Umm. No. It doesn't
>>
>> due both to
>> elegance and to continuity of perspective. This is a story where less
>> is more;
>>
>> % And cutting it entirely would have been making it less and it turning out
>> to be more: it wouldn't stick out like the sore thumb it is.
>>
>> adding some bit talking about the whys of it would stick out
>> like an I-beam welded to the side of a Chevy pickup.
>>
>> % It actually does, hence why I mention it. And I'm not the only one.  Of
>> course you are under no compulsion to change a word: you're the author and
>> its your baby. I just didn't buy your explanations and found the writing
>> weak in regards to it. Pity.
>>
>> % I cut the rest because it was thank you's to others. was just responding
>> to these bits because, well, I didn't before. And now a bunch of people will
>> probably look up ND. to see what I was talking about. Heh.
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Nick
>>
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