Managed not to send this to the list as intended originally....

On 6/14/06, Sebastian Palm <sebastian.palm@myrealbox.com> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "DB Sommer" <sommert@connecttime.net>
To: "Sebastian Palm" <sebastian.palm@myrealbox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [FFML] Re: About all these fic requests/searches...

% Hmm. I think you're getting my comments confused with Brian Randall's.
This the Amazon Queen discussion? Looking over the comments, I think it
was the final bit of Brian's emial you remembered (though I posted it in
its entirety).

My memory turns out to be wrong, and I apologize for attributing Brian's
comments to DB. I do remember that Don got kicked out as part of this
incident, though, and that it had to do with a letter to DB that got mailed
to the list because it bounced. I wish I still had the letters on my drive
so I could check it out myself though, because I'm getting uncertain about
how things connect, which is not good if I'm going to throw accusations of
bias around. (And, of course, now that I think about it, I remember butting
in then too with less than a complete grasp of the situation, and making a
fool of myself. SNAFU.)

The majority of the Donberry Incident is archived here, thanks to the ECB:

http://www.soulriders.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=665

And to try and head this one off at the pass -- if you want to discuss
_that_, take it to the other side of the link (or flame me directly; I
got 123 flames for not liking Kenko's fic, so it'll be nothing new to
me).  The ECB could use more traffic, and it's not really germane to
the topic at hand _here_.

Anyway, now that my faulty grasp of history has been revealed, the point
still stands about us losing more authors than we're gaining, several of
them after public fights with the staff... and several of those being damned
good authors who were a credit to fandom. That means the staff isn't doing a
good job, IMHO.

Well, I think (and I might as well chip in at this point; I have been
named, after all), it's entirely possible to have a disagreement with
an admin and still be on this list.  I never really got along with
Gary, for the first few years of my fanfiction career, and I
antagonized him greatly -- but he never banned me on the FFML for what
I said in #void.  Calling the mod staff corrupt or biased, or even
just saying they're doing a poor job, isn't really doing them a
service.  And it doesn't really help the issue, either.

So, the Donberry Incident (which was spawned by Amazon Queen, IIRC),
was something of a specific issue, and was a failed attempt at
avoiding exactly what we are today.  Some authors get too _much_ C&C,
and Kenko was one of them.  Anything anyone else posted around that
time would just get drowned out in the flood.  There was a concern
that, soon, instead of just being limited by the series the fic was
based on, replies would also be regulated by who wrote the fic.  Well,
some authors are more popular, but we all get what we put into the
system out of it.  Now, I realize I've been lax and haven't really
C&Ced anything but Aaron Nowack's Naruto fic (and boy, am I hating
Naruto these days -_-) in a while, but my last few posts have gotten
ever dwindling replies.

I'm not even confident that the last chapter of DitR reached the list.

Back to the discussion at hand, though. Our first order of business still
has to be deciding what will in the future be allowable traffic to the list.
Gary said he'd go with the majority opionion on both this and the web forum
issue.

I personally don't think that opening the list up to more fandoms
immediately addresses the issue.  What the FFML used to have going for
it was that a fic posted here would be commented on, and with much
more detail than ... well ... anywhere else.  A lot of the current
writers have set up their own private mailing lists, or adjourned to
more restricted communities (anyone ever wonder about the Refuge I
keep noting?), because the FFML hasn't changed, but the behaviors of
its populous have.

Not to attack anyone, but the vast majority of these posts are like
complaining about the weather; you don't like the lack of C&C
something's getting?  Do something about it!

And putting actions to words, I'll offer something that may (or not,
depending on how hated I've become :D) be of more value than an empty
line:

I'll C&C at least one fic a week from now one, even if it's a series I
haven't read.  If half of you who've been participating in the same
discussion can do the same, then we'll get very quickly to the volume
of replies we'd been at in years past.  Oh, sure, there will be those
who aren't comfortable with it, haven't done it, don't know how ...
and you know what?  It's okay.  Part of the reasons we send our C&C to
the list (IMNSHO) is that if we mess up as I have, it's public, and
someone else will catch it and correct the correction.

We learn to be better writers and C&Cers.  And, well, maybe some
people are harsher in their criticisms, so if you don't know what else
to say in response to a fic ... just sent a private reply to the
author and let him/her know you liked it.  That'll encourage more
writing, which in turn _should_ encourage more C&Cing....

Bottom line, as Mr. Kleppe's already said:

You get out of the list what you put in.  You want more?  You have to give more.

Second order of business would be to fix a *good* front page for the list,
and get it registered in places where it will be found. Get us listed at
Rakhal's, at the Anifics forum, on Mediaminer and above all the search
engines. Start signing reviews with "FFML Member", and get people asking
about it. Let people know that we've expanded our scope (if applicable), and
what we're about. ADVERTISE!

I think a page with a searchable archive that went all the way back
would be awesome.  But for advertising, I don't know that it'd be
neccessary.  That being said, I'd still be glad to post a link to the
FFML's page on my site if it were updated.  (Feature requests would be
html sign-up for the list, searchable archives, and, well, maybe we
could revive the old author index, like DFR did back in the day....)

SP

--
Brian Randall
--
I write fanfiction. Too much of it. You can read it here, thanks to a
kind grant from the Larry F foundation:
http://www.florestica.com/brandall/
--
Together. Allegiance or death. BIGFIRE!
--
Haiku of my lament:

Forgive my spelling,
my U.S. education,
is the source of blame.

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