Subject: [FFML] Re: Why the FFML is really dying (was Re: Re: About all these fic request
From: RaeMowse@aol.com
Date: 6/14/2006, 8:03 AM
To: ffml@anifics.com

God! Haven't seen this much action on the FFML since 2002.
 
Saving myself the trouble and answering as I CAP them in.
 
Gary Kleppe Wrote:
 
[["Sebastian Palm" <sebastian.palm@myrealbox.com> wrote:
I  may be earning myself a temp ban with this, but I'm going to have to file 
 
a dissenting opinion. The main reason given against the "discouraging of  
spam", such as fic requests, is that there are thousands of subscribers  and 
if everyone started posting this stuff, the legitimate traffic would  be 
overrun. Frankly, I see little enough evidence of there being any  
legitimate 
traffic these days - I haven't counted properly, but I'd be  very surprised 
if there are more than forty recurring posters to the  list, defined as 
having posted more than twice in a 90 day period.  That's not a lot of 
traffic. Allowing "spam", at least on topic stuff  such as fic requests, 
raises the interest in posting to the list -  including fics...

Speaking as a writer -- who will eventually get back to  writing, really I 
will
-- myself, that's the complete opposite of my  experience. Think about it: 
What
sort of message does it send to people who  *do* post their own work on the 
list
that you not only ignore it, but  actively and noisily seek out something
different? Do you think that  encourages people to write?]]
 
Very true. There's a lot of stuff that'll pop up on the FFML that I have  
ABSOLUTELY no interrest in, especially way back when Ranma and Tenchi were the  
big things to write on, sometimes together. Hell, Ranma was the new black  back 
then. It was like every other fanfic will crossover with Ranma to the point  
that the series had whole new universes dedicated to it, I swear. As a result, 
I  think most people ignore things that aren't in line with that thinking. I 
mean,  how many Legend of Black Heaven fanfics do you see in a year? How many  
people even know what Legend of Black Heaven is?
 
Lurker Wrote:
 
[[> >I remember this list two years ago, when I had to filter the  posts into
their own folder to keep up. I remember four years ago,  when I could
expect
at least a couple of different, often long,  chapters posted every day.
Considering that the fandom has grown  exponentially in that time, why is
this list fading like it  is?

It really is, isn't it? We still get some good, long-running fics  posted
here--a couple multicrossovers that seem to be fairly popular,  Nowack's
exceptional Naruto fic, Megane's MSTings, Lawson's recent return,  and the
like--but the general amount of traffic IS down lately, and it's not  because
of the moderation--it's because of McBurger Syndrome.]]

Excellent point. When I was playing Magic: The Gathering, THE place to be  
for strategy and top decks was Frank Kusomoto's The Dojo webpage. Soon Frank  
stopped running it and turned it over to pro-players like Mike Flores and  David 
Price, and things declined quickly. It wasn't the same as it used to be,  but 
the bigger reason was that there were a ton of other, better places like  
MTGNews and Mindripper to check out, so The Dojo eventually folded; it could not  
deal with the new blood. Besides, who wanted to listen to Mike whine about  
monoblue again? :)
 
Aaron Nowack wrote:
 
[[Compounding these problems, it isn't terribly easy to find the FFML -  we
aren't on the first page of Google results for anime fanfiction.  A  RAAC
archive at fanfic.net is, and some digging there will turn up a  cryptic
reference and instructions to e-mail "ffml-request@fanfic.com" for  more
info, which is both user-unfriendly and I believe now incorrect.   Even
Googling for "FFML" isn't as good as it could be.  A page with the  FFML
FAQ is the first result, but it hasn't been updated since 2004  and
doesn't provide a on-site sign-up form.

To get to the FFML, I  imagine that a new author would have to stumble
across a possibly cryptic  reference in the author's notes of something
he'd read (which isn't likely),  decide to Google it, and be determined
enough to dig through the FAQ, fire up  his e-mail, and subscribe.  If
there's an easier way, I don't know what  it is.]]

Huge.
 
Just huge.
 
I've oftentime decided on dumping the FFML simply because I got tired of  
getting fics I had no real interest in, but it turned out to be so damn  
complicated and bizarre I chose to just live with it. I don't even remember HOW  I 
found the List or how I signed up for it, I wouldn't know how to transfer to  
another email should I drop this one, and I can't figure out how to leave it,  
aside from pulling an inflammatory stunt like that one guy did a couple of years 
 ago with Gary Kleppe just so he could be removed from the list. It's  like 
an implant some days, but on the plus side, it turned out for the  better.
 
sesshou_maru wrote:
 
[[I've almost never said anything here, but I have to agree with this - it  
was a real pain to find this mailing list, and I was very determined in my  
searching.  Of course, it didn't help that once I got here and posted a fic  (One 
that I wrote five years ago when I first started out, admittedly), I  
discovered that this isn't as forgiving a place to a newcomer as other  venues.  So I 
put my old fic back on hiatus instead of going ahead with the  revamp and 
rewrite I was planning - let's face it, I've got a following in a  non-anime 
fandom and a growing career as a comic book writer/artist, and I'd  much rather 
get positive reviews than someone picking apart something that I  wrote before I 
got to the level I'm at today.]]
 
I don't know... I find that negative reviews are only as bad as one thinks.  
In my mind, negative reviews are better because it's easy to say something  
that's good, but it's a real pain in the ass to find someone that'll chew your  
ass out over minute details. That shows a level of caring about the work. 
Unless  it's some lunkhead that says "OMG U Suxxor!" negative reveiws are more  
constructive, no matter how old the work is.
 
And it damn sure beats NO reviews. Don't forget that.
 
Kenko wrote:
 
[[> I think you're engaging in revisionist history here, at least with  
respect
to
Granberry. When I banned him he was quite clear in knowing  that he had it
coming. Kenko, to my knowledge, was never banned nor  threatened with
banning, so

Um... I'm still around, just distracted,  never banned, and well...

After that flamewar that erupted after a test  fic chapter, I ahve been leery
of posting and writing... I don' mind any  insults to my own works...  but I
got VERY upset at how everyone ELSE  got so angry and upset at that piece.]]
 
You, too? :)
 
God, that actually reminded me of the "Doomed" fanfic I posted  here. Twelve 
hours later, I'm flooded with 32 private and public comments  with most 
calling me a racist bigoted moron who should burn in hell. O_O
 
I've never been so damn popular in my life. :D
 
Serious, it was one of those fics that I wrote poking at several  myths 
concerning Japanese traditions and my own ethnicity, and some people  took it WAAAY 
too personally. I'm pretty sure there are still some people that  have me 
blocked on their email accounts. :D
 
Oh well, after a round of explaining and some emailing me apologies, I  wrote 
another fic that was similar, but used a mythical race. Only two  responses. 
Both of them public...
 
Shouldn't went the Eminen route, I tell you...
 
Lurker wrote (again! :D):
 
[[I resist and reject getting an FF.net account because I have the FFML,  I
have my own website, and frankly, I have a HELL of a lot of issues  with
FF.net and some of its policies (like, for instance, its apparent  dislike of
the common asterisk, which is a character I use quite  frequently...)]]

I only joined fanfic.net because I REALLY wanted to piss my sister off.  
She's on it doing Count Cain fanfics, and no matter what I tell her, she won't  
really listen. So I got an account on it so I can show her up.
 
Interestingly enough, FF.net's no asterisk "policy" has actually encouraged  
me to write better transitions instead of skipping out on them. Besides,  
asterisk breaks make me feel like I should be posting more like 20 chapters to  
For Better or For Worst-Case Scenario, instead of the six I do have up (the last 
 two are being rewritten because I got too pushy with the last chapter; I'll 
post  them shortly).
 
darksoar wrote:
 
[[Apparently, my request was the last straw that broke
the camel's  back.]]
 
Bound to happen sometime. Stagnation inevitably leads to atrophy which  leads 
to death. Sometimes, you need that one last butterfly to get the  hurricane 
rolling.
 
Course, that one butterfly could have pointed its ass towards Cuba or  
something instead of NC, but that's just me...
 
Sebastian Palm wrote:
 
[[Personally, I like the idea of opening the list up to all fandoms. It's  
presently stuck in a Ranma rut - nearly everything posted has Ranma involved  
somewhere, sometimes to the detriment of the fic. In fact, sometimes it  
seems Ranma is involved in a fic solely to qualify it as anime fanfiction,  
and thus postable here or in other anime-specific venues. (The Ranma  
category at FF.net counts, seeing as it has a much higher signal to noise  
ratio than most of the rest of FF.net IMHO - at least of the categories I'm  
actively investing time in).]]
 
I'll drink to that. This is a fanfiction mailing list. It was originally  
devoted to anime and manga stuff as far as I've been on here, but it's really  
high time to open the shutters and throw back the curtains to whole other worlds 
 out there. I've a friend who's trying to do a planeswalking story involving  
Harry Potter, Final Fantasy VII and others, and if I can sucker him into 
posting  it anywhere, this would be the place to post it.
 
Despite what some people say -- and I said this earlier -- you can learn a  
lot from a guy that has read the story and busts your balls on it as opposed to 
 someone that reads it and just says, "Good stuff. Write more." The thing 
about  building anything is that you have to destroy somnethng to get started.  
Otherwise you'd have a structure that feels more like Shirow Masamune  
constructed it with adobe bricks, pine straw, and used  tissues.

lsmcgillis wrote:
 
[[This list is dying because of apathy.  No one cares.  No-one  comments, 
no-one communicates.]]
 
I'll admit to some of that. It is hard to get a response sometimes because  
of lack of interest in something, and fanfiction I've felt, has been declining  
because it's no long new or innovating like it used to be. I swear, people 
that  got into fanfics bigtime were also the fans that took the crash of the 90s 
 comic book craze hard (or helped bring it about by ditching domestic stuff 
and  started watching anime).
 
The lack of communication, that's a bothering point. When I first posted  the 
first chapter of FBOFWCS, for two days I was not aware that it had somehow  
got turned into gibberish, just because I CAP it from a Microsoft Word 
document.  Some people made jokes about it, but no one had bothered to actually say  
anything directly to me. Which brings about another point I have about the 
List,  but that'll wait. I had to figure out what exactly went down by tracking 
through  the posts made (no easy task as the thread title changed a couple of 
times, none  actually pointing to the original thread I made), and then ask the 
person that  made said joke what was he talking about, then I had to ask 
people to tell me if  the post came through again. Took four days to get a clear 
posting, which got  raped by my mailing program.
 
Related note, that's another thing the FFML should find some way to deal  
with. For some reason, it strips all the story posts I make when writing with  
Microsoft. Even when I just CAP it, it still throws a damn hissy fit, and  
cutting out the Smart Quotes function did nothing but anger the great Listar for  
some unknown reason.
 
Well, maybe I should've paid it back the $20 it lent me three years  ago...
 
.......
 
Whew! That's a mouthful.
 
 
 
 
Adrian  Moten


"Falling in love is something that happens to you, like  getting run over by 
a truck."
-Amy Alkon, the Advice Goddess 



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