----- Original Message -----
From: "Jourdan M. Bickham" <bikkamu@yahoo.co.jp>
To: "Andrew Norris" <setsuna@anifics.com>; "hkmiller"
<hkmiller@theeddy.com>; "Fan Fiction ML" <ffml@anifics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 5:18 AM
Subject: Re: [FFML] Re: [Fanfic][Ranma/SM] Relatively Absent: Chapter 10
I enjoyed the chapter too, and have many of my own comments that will
hopefully come in a later email. Been an awful long time since I C&C'd...
so please forgive...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Norris" <setsuna@anifics.com>
To: "hkmiller" <hkmiller@theeddy.com>; "Fan Fiction ML" <ffml@anifics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 6:26 PM
Subject: [FFML] Re: [Fanfic][Ranma/SM] Relatively Absent: Chapter 10
I can answer some questiosn for you, for Gaijin (without spoling even)
I can probably do even better on some.
----- Original Message -----
From: "hkmiller" <hkmiller@theeddy.com>
To: "Mark Shurtleff" <gaijin@sfcmd.com>
Cc: "Fan Fiction ML" <ffml@anifics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 11:47 AM
Subject: [FFML] Re: [Fanfic][Ranma/SM] Relatively Absent: Chapter 10
(Snippages, on pure grammer or "cofusing" complaints
<Snip>
> you know better than to use the Company database
You're using the CIA's nickname for this Japanese
equivalent of the Secret Service? Strikes me as an
odd choice.
I can see it, but I tend to agree, and _I_ didn't catch it on the
prepread.
no good. The Japanese LOVE titles. There'd be a nickname that is only a
shortening of the office's name. Something like the Ministry of
Intelligence or Ministry of Internal Affairs and Security. Or if not a
Ministry, Internal Affairs and Security Agency.
True, when I reread this section the concept "Directorate" was what sounded
to me. Gaijin should replace Company with
Directorate (JNID, or Japanese National Intellengece Directorate (a hybrid
of the NSA and CIA for you US thinkers)
<Snip AGAIN>
> his aura projected a confidence and strength of will
> only seen in those who were grandmasters of their
> fields.
I found this bit rather hard to swallow. Not that it
makes much difference to your fic as a whole, but,
since that's so, you might want to rephrase. Even
your 'fictionalized' Emperor is the latest member of
a very long line, and inherited the only position he
could ever hold; what possible incentive could he
have to develop such strength of will? Knowing
what almost alwarys happens to the willpower of
heirs of the Nth generation (where N > 2), I don't
understand why you'd want to say this anyway.
*shrugs* First: He's roughly based on the real guy... who's in his
latter
years... and has _lived_ though a HELL of a lot.
I can see it. It's not unusual... QE is a iron bitch, (no insult to
british
readers intented, it's a complement in MY eyes) no question...
the problem is, you'd almost HAVE to delevop strength of will to keep
from
strangling or snapping in the positions they're in.
Sometimes being in the slots they're in... is NOT the easiest job in the
world, y'know?
I'll do you even better. The reviews of his book were so so, but there is
a
book by Bix on the life of Hirohito. I never did finish reading it, but
it
goes through *everything*... his education, etc. in detail. That man was
rasied to be an active emperor. He had a full military educated, foreign
languages, politics, government, etc. The last living Genro (senior
advisor) from the era of his grandfather Mutsumoto, the Meiji Emperor and
his circle wanted to retake the reigns of power from the political parties
and the Diet. Thus they raised Hirohito for this role and used his
grandfather as much fo a role model. And we all know how important that
period of time was as well. As a matter of fact the original circle of
Genro were the leaders of those top Daimyo families that had opposed the
Tokugawa family and were thus based from lands anywhere near Edo (just a
little FYI). I don't find it a stretch to imagine that Hirohito and the
Imperial Household Agency would have wanted Akihito to have been raised to
be prepared to fully take over his father's pre-WWII role.
I was trying to make a general point, not a speific one, and with the
current crown prince's actions and statements,
I had other reasons (The heir _is_ trying to make some political
statements.) as well. But, you're dead right.
Hirohito was rasied to _be_ a New Meiji. and it's very likey his heir was
as well, PLUS, there are indications in public
that the Prince was rasied as well.
> do you know how *long* its been since someone
> has actually had the courage to say crap or any
> other swear word in my presence?
This bit, however, rings true to me. (It may or may
not BE true, but I swallowed it very easily.)
Impossible. Just wouldn't happen. Japanese thinking is something
ingrained
into everything... way of life, language, *everything*. The Japanese are
raised and controlled tightly by the rules of the society, and even for
the
Emperor they are not so easily set aside. It is possible that he tells
them
to speak their mind, but that happens all the time in foreign companies,
but
no one ever does. THey feel that if they ever say something negative
about
their boss that they'll be immediately fired.
Is Ranma fully Japanese? ^_- On this, remember, Ranma _has_ NOT had that
much soicalization.
I agree with you, you just keep forgetting Ranma. He's not fully Japanese,
in thought.
*grin* I wonder how often someone swears in the President's presense...
and
hte answer is: "Not often" And Japan's a more polite soicety.
Japan isn't more polite. Japan has more procedural rules rearding
inpersonal relations and interaction which aleives uncertainly in "new"
situations.
This is a "techical" detail, here, I agree with teh point, disagree with the
result. ALL FORMS of
Politieness are "procedural" rules to alievate situations.
Period. If you don't belive me, please remember how the concept of shaking
hands, and oh, the saultue started.
Politieness is NOT gentinc, it is taught, and most "rules" have _VERY_ good
reasons for it.
> And as of the moment, you specifically your
> female form are the sole legal heir of the
> Yamada Ninjutsu Ryu-
While highly convenient at this point, it strikes me
that this point could use additional justification of
some sort. In Japanese law, and in MOST schools
of this-or-that art, adopted children make
perfectly respectable heirs. Why isn't Midori a
legal heir? Or, for that matter, Ranma's cousin
Mariko we're introduced to in this chapter? (You
never state that lack of training disqualifies an heir,
for instance.)
First: there are sometimes clauses to inheirtance rules within
families...
second, ever think Aiko's mother or grandmother got a private bill
passed?
restricting it to strictly bloodline females? DIRECT Bloodline?
(ie, my daughter, my granddaughter, etc. Mariko is bloodline, but not
direct female bloodline)
Think of it as a root hog or die clause in some wills. And no, it's the
bloodline, acutally.
Actually legally women can and do inherit. Crown Princess Aiko will be
the
first major case of this happening when she acends to the throne following
her father, Crown Prince Naruhito (Akihito's eldest son). However the
tradition is for the eldest male child, and in the case of marital arts,
farms, stores, etc. when a male marries the only daughter, he takes on her
family name to inherit everything with the daughter as the head of the
family. In this case... Ranma is the eldest male grandchild and a blood
relative... both make a huge difference.
Yup, that's the _tradition_. However, remember the clan? KUNOICHI.
There _are_ several matrilineial clans in Japan, and it's not outside the
line that this is one.
> Normally the Throne avoids
Is that really the word used in Japan? (You
could have used "I", for instance, or "the
Imperial Household") It strikes me as a
Briticism applied to Japan.
*shrugs* I wouldn't say it, but... the equivant wouldn't make sense,
really.
Also, remember, the Japanese Royal family for reasons left better
undiscussed tended to "merge" customs, a lot, esipcally in the Menji
era.
(its' not that I don't want to discuss them, it's that I don't want to
spend
50+ pages on the arugment)
I could see it.
Meiji... M E I J I... NOT Menji.
IIRC, I relipled at 1245pm. (my time) After being out in the heat. My
infamous spelling is even worse... :D
Japan's names for various things are a ridiculous mix of British and
American English. However, If I remember correctly, when Naruhito gave a
press conference about Masako (his wife) recently, he refered to the
Throne
as the Imperial Household.
IIRC, you're right. *shrugs* I can't recall ethier way, but I think you're
right here. The throne isn't used.
> Ranma blurted is surprise
(sp) that "is" should be "in"
> "Marriage gift tax exemptions?"
>
> Yet another shake.
So neither Soun, Genma, Nabiki, or Kasumi have
ever bothered to explain to Ranma exactly WHY
his marriage to Akane was so important? Well,
quite plausible for Genma, actually. At any rate,
Ranma's NOT knowing this perhaps make his
decision later this chapter a bit more plausible.
Kasumi? I tend to agree here... acutally, on this... but, I can also see
her
assuming for a bit that Genma _DID_ tell Ranma... and when she figures
it
out, that he didn't (oh, hell, I can see that easily, Genma not telling)
figuring it's NOT her duty to tell. Nabiki? Give information for free?
*snerk!*
Akane... likey knows, but hasn't bothered to tell Ranma (Oh, he should
know!)
Soun? As well, or doesn't care.
No one should need to tell him. It is VERY common knowledge. Like only
legally having to go to school through junior high school.
And how many years did Ranma attend school? More importanltly, how good was
his schooling?
And how MUCH contact with others did he really have? It's plasuible he
didn't know. Ranma has a
realllllly casual view towards money.
<Snip>
> "Like I said &" Ranma said with a sigh. "So
> what DO we do next?"
This seems to be the core of the chapter: Ranma's
decision to go along with the wedding plans. Given
that the rationale the Emperor has provided is
essentially the same that Genma and Soun have, it's
quite ironic that Ranma accepts here. But it is more
plausible if Ranma doesn't know what Genma and
Soun's rationale is.
Okay, here's a simple and hard point.
HAS Ranma _EVER_ denied BLUNTLY that he would _NOT_ marry Akane?
Has Ranma _ever_ denined that he WOULD not marry a Tendo?
Answer to both questions: "No."
Ranma went along with the Tendo engagement. In this without really
realizing what it was all about
In this case... he knows, and has been TOLD by someone he in theory
should
respect, its' for the best.
It _also_ clears his honor, Ukyou's honor, Tendo's honor _very_ well.
How does marrying Midori clear everyone's honor?
Two ways: First: He's Yamada now.
Not Saotome.
Second: it's questionable if that would clear Ukyou's, but with the Heika
ordering the marrage...
You're not supposed to disobey the throne after all...
<SNIP>
<SNIP>
its not as if I can just say no to the
> Emperor after all
You have not previously given us any reason to
believe that Ranma would feel this way. Probably
the majority of Japanese would be willing to ignore
an indirect request from the Emperor, and there is
enough of a minority which WOULD be willing to
say 'no' to a direct request, that you can't just
assume that your readers know Ranma would
feel this way. It's not like it's instinctive politeness
on Ranma's part; the Gate only fixed his speech
centers, not his personality.
*shrugs* Ranma obeyed his father on the marriage agreement.
And with Nodoka's personality in this story, and the fact she _DID_ have
him
for 5 years, she
likey imprinted just enough for him to have _respect_ for the Emperor,
and
I
can see Genma
rasing Ranma with Bushido (or his own warped version of it), anyways.
It's not Bushido. It's neo-confucianism that arose during the era years
of
the Edo Period when Ieyasu Tokugawa used confucian ideas to divide up
society and thus keep the people down.
I didn't say it was true Bushido. Just Bushido. (and actually, even before
the Edo period, there was reverence for the
Tennu Heika... they just tried VERY hard not to get him to give orders
that'd disagree.)
> Mugonno smiled to himself as he watched
I liked the view into the clan politics and personalities
here, btw.
> illegal pornographic pictures of the deceased Tendo-
Plausibility problem here: topless shots hardly count
as "illegal pornography" in Japan. Full frontal shots do,
as would shots Nabiki would have no way to take,
as they would require Ranko to do things she wouldn't
do. But as far as we readers are concerned, topless
is all Nabiki's ever taken, since you supply no details.
Err... _without- consent, and underage. Note the wording.
"Illegal".
Illegal in the sense that HOW she did it was agasint hte law. Not
illegal
in
their existance.
See the difference?
Whatever. Topless shots are all so common. You do know that you can buy
porno off the shelf in almost any convenience store (not behind the
counter)
or bookstore. Plus Enjo Kosai (essentially underage prostitution) and
whatnot... no man. not that big a deal. We still have many chikan
(sexual
perverts) onthe trains grabbing and feeling up women...
Yup. However, these _ARE_ anti yak cops... and any straw, y'know?
(After all, how DID they bust Al Capone...) the big thing is they belive
Nabsy is a baby yak.
and they want it ALL.
> especially considering the number of family members
> present
Normal Japanese weddings have only the immediate
family in attendance. The big crowd shows for the
reception. While I have no idea what the protocol
would be like for a wedding held at the Imperial
Palace, it might be worth having Nodoka or Aiko
comment on differences.
See below. the acutal _wedding_ itself, only has the immediate family,
yes.
(though that varies depending on the family, mind you, and it's _not_
_that_
unusual to have 1st cousins in attendance)
No the wedding ceremony has whom ever you want. Traditionally isn't still
not just immediate family. It is immediate family and very close friends
only. Been to a few. Trust me on this one. The reception is not
everyone.
It is the wedding ceremony party mainly and some more people.. likely
mostly
family and close co-workers. The afterparty then involves all the rest of
your friends and acquaintences.
*shrugs* I've heard of varianeces. Depends on the couple, depends on the
age, depends on a lot of factors
Same for the Reception, and afterparty. This is one of the more flexable
rules, really. Some hold to the "immediate" family, some
to the "family and really close freinds" *shrugs* others don't. it's all
in several factors.
Part of it, is just how much can you afford? ^_-
(remember the gifts?)
<SNIP>
> our own children would end up being trained as
> actual shinobi
Well, clearly something else happened which wasn't
shown to us at the time it happened. It's fairly clear
what it WAS, mind you; it's just that I think you'd
have been better off showing the actual decision.
It was implied. Not stated. Basically, Suzu got the message loud and
clear, so did Ichrio that the family's needed
AS Kunoichi. Suzu hasn't _quite_ caught the difference, though. (and
yeah,
shinobi training will be added. the Anything Goes style is
a effective shinobi style)
Not without the forbidden techniques. It's a good hand to hand combat
base,
but for Shinobi, they need more than standard Anything Goes will
encompass.
*me whistles innocenlty*
BTW, isn't there a Daichi missing from this scene?
Just curious.
*blink* *nods* How right you are.
> Ranma was unaware she was supposed to be
> the one to respond.
Clan leadership transferred with the marriage?
Would have thought that was a separate step, for
instance together with Aiko's gifting of the estate
to Ranma.
Err... since the assets are being handed over, at the marriage, the
public
head is Ranma, though _no_ one expects her to acutally _run_ it.
Aiko's of the age where she's _expected_ to retire and be a
"grandmother/nun" (depending on the family) anyways. This is not out of
line.
No one's going to _belive_ Ranko's acutally in control though.
And it was Ranma's wedding that was the real point of the meeting.
To transfer the assets of the Clan avoding the inheirtance taxes
AND to make it clear who'd run the clan. Ranko and Midoru hold title to the
majoirty of the clan's assets now.
> to something you never agreed to do
Well, Ranma DID agree. Suggest you rephrase
to "something you never wanted."
Before it was slammed into her face, I think MIdori's saying, but yeah,
good
point.
Andrew
(And I hope I helped to clear this up!)
It's been fun.
Ja ne!
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