Subject: [FFML] Re: [INFO] Macross can easily hold 78,000
From: Chris Nasipak
Date: 2/17/2004, 9:22 PM
To: FOG3
CC: FFML <ffml@anifics.com>



Remember, though, that the rebuilt Macross City was in only one large hold 
of the ship... there were still factories, supply storage, etcetera. I'd 
say that the Macross City area took up maybe 1/12 to 1/10 of the total 
volume, at most.  Which is still a large area - about 200 m^3 per person, 
still more than a Nimitz carrier - and your figures don't count in the 
Nimitz's rather large non-crew-habitation spaces, so that 175 m^3 figure is 
still overlarge.

We do get a good look at Rick Hunter/Hikaru Ichijo's 
junior-officer's-quarters during the series, and it's fairly small - about 
30 m^3 in all, by my eyeball guess. It's a single room, about a ten-foot 
cube, with a desk, a chair, and a bunk, and not much more. This is probably 
the norm for his rank and lower (enlisted may bunk two or three to a 
slightly larger room, or barracks-style for privates).

As for the city itself, we have good shots of it in the first episode, 
surrounding the ship, but most of the buildings are fairly low and 
spread-out. The total surface area covered by the city looked to be about 
equal to that of the ship itself, or slightly smaller. So, deduct from that 
the size of the factories and military bases, which would be placed on 
different levels and different parts of the ship, then consider that the 
rebuild would not be exact, and the city could be compressed quite a bit.

A lot of the city's housing was probably apartment-style to begin with, 
judging from the buildings we saw in those opening shots. This converts 
well to in-ship housing, with larger and more compact apartment blocks 
available compared to the more spread-out city. The only independant family 
residences I would expect to see would be places like the Lin household, 
above their restaurant. In the parts of the rebuilt Macross City we see, we 
do see a lot of places that build up instead of out, a distinct difference 
from the old city.

The city deck pretty much has to be in the 'torso' section of the ship's 
hull, which takes up a bit less than 1/3 of the total volume. This brings 
your calculation down to about 800 m^3 per person. If most of the factories 
are in the engine section (the 'legs'), which makes a certain degree of 
sense, that still leaves at least one completely unused level (where Hikaru 
and Minmei were trapped), one or more levels for aircraft hangars and 
weapons support near the top deck, and some space in between for the city. 
I estimate about 60m high x 350m long x 300m wide, which gives us about 100 
m^3 per person. Tight, but not completely unreasonable.

This becomes even more interesting when you note that the dimensions given 
below are very obviously, judging from the onscreen evidence, rather low. I 
would estimate a total ship length of about 3000m, with a corresponding 
increase in space available for the city.

At 06:17 PM 2/17/2004 -0700, FOG3 wrote:
SDF-1 Macross (from actual Macross stats as Robotech is just using Macross)

(http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/united_nations/ships/macross/index.html)

Length: 1210m Width:496m Height: 312m

Crew: 20,000 +58,000 civilians

(1210m*496m*312m)/78,000 people = 2,401 cubic meters per person

Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier 
(http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/nimitz/)

Length: 333m Width: 77m Height: 41m

Crew: 6,000

(333m*77m*41m)/6,000 people = 175 cubic meters per person

Attached ships to Macross:

(http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/united_nations/ships/daedalus/index.html)

(http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/united_nations/ships/prometheus/index.html)

Watching someone working in only one dimension for a ship to declare what 
complement it can have when they can fully perceive 3 and recognize a 
fourth: Priceless.

Okay, the SDF-1 Macross really is for all intents and purposes a block so 
that volume measurement is pretty much dead on. The Nimitz-class isn't 
really a box though so they're actually more crammed in which means less 
room then the given figure. Despite that those ships, which are the 
largest warships ever built, carry 50 fighters, some very serious engines, 
and defense guns. None of the volume these take up is removed from the 
figure for the Nimitz calculated ratio.

To be as crammed in as the figure calculated for the Nimitz over 12/13ths 
of the Macross would for some reason have to not be devoted to residence 
sections. Translation: over 92% of the Macross's volume would have to be 
ignored to get the same crew to volume ratio as onboard a Nimitz-class 
Aircraft carrier. It would under such conditions carry 650 fighters 
((78,000 people/6,000 people) *50 fighters) which unless you count the 
Destroids is less then the Macross's onboard complement.

At 2/3 of the ship devoted to other tasks they still have 800 cubic meters 
per person and the 20,000 crew members and all don't have that big of 
quarters which leaves more of the volume to the civilians. That is a lot 
of space per person. Unless you think a volume equivalent to 20m x 20m x 
2m to be small for one person in which case I think you're nuts. So yes, 
you can in fact comfortably cram 78,000 people into the SDF-1 Macross. If 
you're smart about how you do it I think you should be able to put in the 
city we saw.

Pulls down eyelid and sticks out tongue at people who say they couldn't 
fit that many people into the Macross.

Sorry couldn't resist after reading a comment about not being able to fit 
a city of 75,000 people into the 1.2 km long SDF-1.

-FOG3


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