----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glazius Falconar" <GlaziusFalconar@peoplepc.com>
To: "FFML" <ffml@anifics.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:22 AM
Subject: [FFML] Re: [spamfic][JwIHNG] Banana March

Thermopyle ranted:

Aside from your misuse of the English language, a number of the

tags

you used simply didn't work.  They didn't fit the dialogue or

actions

they were chosen for.  It's clear that you rushed in writing this

or

simply didn't care.  It's not just the technical aspect of the

writing

that is lazy, but the content is, too.

You failed to provide convincing scenes or dialogue.  You failed to
provide description that creates a real setting for the characters

to

interract within.  You failed to properly build the story towards a
fitting punchline.  You failed to make the first Guu fic enjoyable

or

even worth reading.

You failed to make a point.

But you are right, this is an answer.  Thank you for that.

Actually, judging from the volume of your vitriol, not only did he
succeed in making his point, but he did so with _flying_ colors.

The story he sent the list was quite badly written.  If that was his
intent, then yes, he succeeded.

LESSON #1: Speed-reading blurs the distinction between content and
grammar. For a quick-paced spamfic (with lots of whitespace) this

can be

a big advantage. For a slower-paced serious fic with much twisting

and

turning, grammar and style would be much more noticeable.

ADDENDUM TO LESSON #1: I've been practicing quick-reading for a

number

of years now. I don't the extent to which the average human brain

can

construct concepts from fragmentary outlines thereof. It may be

that,

even speed-reading, some people need 'proper' grammar. But even the

idea

of 'proper' grammar varies from person to person, so this doesn't

say

very much.

And then, looking up, I realized the source of the 'off' feeling I'd
gotten - 'said' was being avoided with a passion, and so for that

matter

was repetition of any _other_ verb following dialogue.

How mnay ploepe do seped-rindear?  I'm cuouris.  I tned to sikm,
mlesyf, and I have no isoniulls of cetomple cepheromsion wehn dinog
taht.  It dendeps uopn the sorty, tohugh.  Fifnacs in garenel, as wlel
as msot peshilubed bokos, I sikm.  Vrey good psore can isternet me
egunoh to do owirsehte--I rtceenly wnet toughth Krut Vetogunn's
Shuuselghtoare-Fvie and raed eervy sceetnne of taht book.  ^_^

There was a recent study that found something interesting about
reading.  I couldn't find the url, so the above is an example.  Here
is the corrected version:


How many people do speed-reading?  I'm curious.  I tend to skim,
myself, and I have no illusions of complete comprehension when doing
that.  It depends upon the story, though.  Fanfics in general, as well
as most published books, I skim.  Very good prose can interest me
enough to do otherwise--I recently went through Kurt Vonnegut's
Slaughterhouse-Five and read every sentence of that book.  ^_^

It is not necessary for writing to be correct in grammar, spelling, or
punctuation to be readable.  The idea behind proper grammar, spelling,
and punctuation is, however, clarity of communication.  Despite the
first paragraph above being almost entirely misspelled, most people
should be able to read that without a problem, with the possible
exception of a few words.  It's not even necessary to read slowly,
really--granted, I know what I wrote, but I saw and easily read a
number of paragraphs in that format that were not based on content I
had already read (in this case, written) previously.  But that first
paragraph is most certainly not 'proper.'

The English language has established spellings for each word.  There
is some variation due to different locations--British spellings versus
American, for instance--but each word is clearly defined.  A number of
words aren't spelled the way that they are spoken, and a number of
spoken words have different spellings based on the intended meaning.
Spelling something phonetically correct does allow the reader to
figure out what the author intended, but it's still incorrect if that
spelling does not match the established spelling that is recognized as
'correct'.  It's an issue of clarity--with only one spelling of a
meaning, it becomes easy for readers to understand what is meant
rather than having to jump through hoops like trying to figure out
whether the author is using a different word or has made up a new word
or whether the author simply prefers the alternate spelling or doesn't
know how to spell, etc.  There are different sets of established
spellings, like I said--but everything outside of those are incorrect.

Whether the reader is a speed-reader doesn't matter.  Whether the
story is a quick-paced spamfic that is written badly on purpose or due
to the author's lack of experience or respect for the readers whose
time he is wasting doesn't matter.  Stories should still be written
according to the established structure of the language in which they
are written.  Doing otherwise simply causes the language of the story
to become confused or distracting.  Proper grammar and spelling and
punctuation aren't things that change from person to person--the only
change is that specific people might not have a complete education on
the subject, and so their percieved 'proper' grammar, etc., is simply
ignorance on their part.

There are different rules for different locations and different rules
for different types of writing, but whatever type of writing is being
done, the author needs to stick to the rules established for it.
Making excuses like "This is a quick-paced spamfic" doesn't work--all
it does is prop the story up with an imaginary crutch of "It's just a
quick-paced spamfic.  Writing doesn't matter."  Quick-paced spamfics
should be written correctly, too.

LESSON #2: 'Said' is your friend. 'Said' will not bite you or throw

you

in the basement. If you find your dialogue wearing thin, you can

just as

easily rearrange the sentence structure as pick another verb out of

a hat.

ADDENDUM TO LESSON #2: The example actually didn't work quite as

well as

it could have, because '"Question?" Proper Name verbed.' can be
interpreted either as a single sentence or as two separate

sentences.

But this leads to another strategy for breaking up sentence

structure -

dialogue in one sentence, not attributed, and a following sentence

in

the same paragraph identifying the speaker.

ADDENDUM TO ADDENDUM TO LESSON #2: There's probably a list of

various

ways to attribute dialogue out there, somewhere. Probably several of
them. Some of them may even have varied sentence structure, as

opposed

to twenty-five verbs to situationally replace 'said'. Do research on
your own to increase your understanding!

And _because_ repetition was consciously being avoided, it looked,
especially near the end, like one of those Tinkertoy constructions

you

build as a kid to 'use up' the whole barrel - it didn't fit together
well at all.

For '"Question?" Proper Name verbed.' you are correct--that's
difficult to read, much of the time, and I avoid writing it.
'"Question," Proper Name asked.' is a reasonable substitute.
Exclaimed speech can be handled similarly.  That does, however, lose
the stronger punctuation.  It becomes an issue of which is more
informative and important--the dialogue, or the tag.  Meaningful
dialogue can stand alone.  Weaker dialogue needs modifiers.

Also, I do hope you realize that a number of the "dialogue" tags were
repeated.  That makes the value of your statements about Lurker
conciously avoiding repetition rather suspect.

LESSON #3: Dialogue tags both are and are not characterization. It

_is_

necessary for them to match with whatever characterization you have

in

mind for the speaker, but by themselves they do not constitute
characterization. People do things other than speak, after all.

But that, of course, is the point. The fic is patently absurd in its

use

of dialogue tags and deliberately so, to illustrate a point by

reducing

to absurdity.

The tags are absurd, yes, but assaulting somebody with a building
isn't the best way to illustrate a point.  I know that quite well.
^_^

LESSON #4: You learn more about what works or doesn't work,
stylistically, when you look at what doesn't work, as opposed to

what does.

ADDENDUM TO LESSON #4: Assuming that what an author _writes_ is what

an

author _condones_, and saying so in public, makes you look bitter

and/or

stupid.

This fic is standard ff.net content.  There's no need to write
deliberately bad (assuming all of the flaws this story has are
deliberate, which I doubt) stories for the sake of making an example.
We've already got thousands of such examples, and this one doesn't
even stand out.

As for what Lurker writes and condones, well, he's stated that he does
condone such writing, with respect to his "dialogue" tags--stated it
is correct, in fact, rather than just commonly accepted.  He hasn't
even attempted to specify that smiled is an exception to the rule,
with him agreeing for other verbs.  It's just correct.  Read his
recent posts for further information.  As a reversal of what you said:
Assuming what an author writes is _not_ what an author condones, and
saying so in public, makes you look, at the very least, uninformed.

I'm happy to hear that you got something out of the story.  All of the
lessons you listed are things I consider obvious, but reading is of
course a subjective thing.  Different people will appreciate or not
appreciate the content of the same story.  I found this to be a
poorly-written waste of time and a sad beginning for the fanfiction of
the series.  If you want to celebrate the cleverness of the author and
story, well, go ahead.  I won't.  ^_^


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