----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Eternal Lost Lurker" <lurkerdrome@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Thermopyle" <thermopyle@tds.net>; "Alan"
<chibipoe@mindspring.com>; <ffml@anifics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 12:49 PM
Subject: [FFML] Re: [Sailor Moon] [AU] Alternate Views 01

Fermopile wrote:

So much for your having me on killfile.  Clever nick manipulation,
btw.

Jaedite's inner thoughts don't work very well, in my opinion, with
respect to what has happened in the past.  The description of

Usagi

crashing to the floor long ago in a clumsy mess makes it seem, to

me,

as though he had run into her BEFORE the divergence point, in

which

case some of the other Senshi would be awake.  This made me think

that

they had been killed somehow early in their careers, although my
previous guess was that Usagi's family had been attacked and
slaughtered.

Not necessarily. Divergences can neuter a whole lot of branching

paths. Look

at some of the AU Ranma fics out there...

I was commenting on what this scene hinted at and how it didn't match
what is later revealed in the chapter, nothing else.

I really don't buy Usagi's personality here.  She doesn't read as
though she's in pain.  She reads more as a witty, sarcastic

superhero

out of a generic fanfic.  I don't see how she evolved from being

Usagi

to being like this at all.  That's a big problem, since I like the
original Usagi.  I don't like this one.

It works, given the events described later in the chapter. My

biggest

complaint is that her personality is directly ripped from Buffy the

Vampire

Slayer.

I don't watch Buffy, so I don't know whether or not that is true.  I
do know what happened that is supposed to have changed Usagi like
this, however, and that's what I'm commenting on--I don't believe this
change.  If you do, that's fine.  I don't really care.  What I said
was quite clearly stated in the form of opinion.

Smiled is not a speech tag.  Neither is nodded.

It is if the author chooses it to be. It's a stylistic thing.

The only stylistic aspect of this is that an author is free to ignore
grammar and punctuation rules if they so wish.  That does not mean
they are correct to do so--just that they made that choice.  If the
author is aware that such tags are incorrect, fine--I was informing
him otherwise.

If you wish, there are plenty of sites that address this specifically.
Go search for some.  Hell, I saw quite a few that used 'smiled' as an
example of speech tags that aren't.  There were also a few 'nodded' in
there.  One such site was for a 500-level creative writing course.

Mistakes of this type are fairly common and can be found
even in published works.  They are still mistakes.

Only in your opinion. Which is not the majority opinion.

Do some research or actually think about the intent behind speech tags
and you'll figure out differently.

I've only watched up to episode sixteen of Sailor Moon

Which hardly qualifies you as a reviewer of any related work of
fanfiction...

That comment showed that I don't have a full knowledge of the series,
yes, but it has nothing to do with story aspects here.  You're lack of
knowledge on the 'smiled' comment certainly doesn't qualify you as a
reviewer of any work of english fiction in general, if you want to
think that a specific lack indicates a general one.

but I'm already quite sure that Beryl is not a patient woman.

Letting

Jaedite

run around on his own for years while suffering constant defeats

at

the hands of Sailor Moon simply isn't believable.  She would

either

have done the same thing she did in the anime--that freezing

thing,

whatever it was--or she would have let her other generals go to

work.

Years of patient waiting is something I just can't believe.

Well, he's generating a more or less steady supply of energy, even

though

he's losing youma by the truckload, and he's only managed to get

nearly

killed once, and only one Senshi has appeared to challenge him. It

was a

combination of failures that led to Jadeite's fate

originally...three

Senshi, a constant string of defeats, and very little net gain. In

the

circumstances set forth by this fic, it's believable.

Nearly killed once?  How do you know that?  Only one time has been
indicated, yet they've been fighting for four years, so it's
impossible to say at this point.  As for the energy...again, I have
trouble believing that Beryl would sit on her other three generals for
four years if so much energy is needed that even a fairly-successful
Jaedite isn't close to gathering the required amount.  Granted, she
does that in the series (but only for a short time), but this is a
much more serious AU.

The plot progression isn't really believable.  Things developing

the

way they are now, after years of Usagi being on her own like
this...well, I have trouble with that.  There doesn't seem to be

any

reason for it.  Since I haven't seen Minako's introduction I can't

say

whether her introduction at this point works, but it feels wrong

to

me--it feels like she should have shown up ages earlier.

Actually, the plot progression IS believable, provided you have half

an

ounce of common sense, reading comprehension, ability to form

coherent

chains of logical thought...but I digress. At this point in this

chapter of

this story, a scenario is being established, and the reader is being

given a

set of circumstances that do not fit with established knowledge,

with the

implied assurance that an explanation for how things came to be this

way is

forthcoming.

Gee, aren't you witty?

Yes, a scenario is being established.  Judging from some of the
problems the chapter has, however, along with the apparent holes in
the 'four-years-later' aspect of the story, I think I can say that at
this point it doesn't seem as though the author has thought all of
these elements through as carefully as he should have.

It's no more and no less than any good story of this nature should

do.

Sure.  Lots of good stories do this.  The key word there is 'good,'
and as I said, I don't think the author pulled it off.

Usagi's saying that Minako is hot is only an omen of bad things to
come.

That much, at least, we are in agreement on.

This really doesn't feel like Usagi.  By this point I really want

to

know how old Usagi is supposed to be.  The introduction for her

job

made me think she was some kind of cop, too, which isn't good.

Direct quote from the story:

 "Tsukino-san?" a bright voice said. "We need you down at the

Osa-P

center. There was a robbery last night. We need as many photos as
possible before the police cordon off the area. You're closest. So
hurry."

BEFORE THE *POLICE* cordon off, not before *WE* cordon off. You

should pay

more attention to context.

I was talking about the first couple of lines of dialogue combined
with the opening.  It read as a cliche wake-up-the-cop opening.  It's
obvious later on that she isn't a cop, but that's the first
impression.  From my comment, it's obvious that I know she isn't a
cop--pay more attention.

As to the point about this not "feeling like Usagi"...it's not

SUPPOSED to,

duh. Alternate universe, alternate personalities?

It doesn't feel derived from Usagi, either.  It doesn't feel like a
changed Usagi, it feels like a completely different character.
Alternate universe or not, changing characters completely isn't a good
move.  If you're going to argue that completely alternate
personalities are fine, then you should realize that in such a case
the author would be better off making somebody else Sailor Moon so
that the personality differences aren't grating on the readers.

*snip gay rant*

So, quit with the gay people.  It's gay.

That ain't the only thing around here that's gay. :/

Oh, I agree.

I don't get this.  Where did this scene come from?  Nothing

triggered

Beryl's abrupt decision to cut Jaedite out of the youma loop.  It
doesn't make any sense.  The first scene should have had a "this

is

your second-to-last chance" speech, then after that Jaedite should
have messed up and gotten trashed by Sailor Moon somehow, and THEN
this scene should take place.  As it is, I ended up feeling like

there

was some big fight scene that I missed somehow.

This, I have to admit, has validity. That scene DID come out of

nowhere, and

probably would have been better off being part of the first

Jadeite/Beryl

scene instead of a separate entity like this.

 "Can't let the rain in," Rei said, voice held steady, with only

the

faintest hint of worry. She turned to the cat as the latch

clicked.

"Would you like some ice cream, Luna? I think I need some."

 Again, Luna nodded, saying nothing. Rei scooped the feline up

and

together they went back into the main apartment to wait.

Lesbians everywhere....

Umm...let's see. Rei, Usagi, ... ... ...

Search concluded. 2 lesbian(s) found.

Yeah. "Everywhere".

I read the entire chapter before commenting.  It's obvious that you
didn't, or didn't closely.  There are more.  The comment was designed
to point out one instance of lesbians, and the comments in other
places are to show others.

This made no sense to me.  Why would Tuxedo Mask jump in and haul

her

out like that?  His assumption here--that she's being attacked, or
something--makes no sense.  Especially not with the fact that they
have met each other prior to this scene, and so he should know

that

she is quite capable of fighting on her own.

Where is it stated that they've met before? Just because she's

collecting

the roses from his crime scenes doesn't mean she's ever MET him

before. She

might not even have realised who she just beat the hell out of

there. Also,

how does his assumption that she's being attacked make no sense? The

youma

was about to throw a lightning blast at her, for fuck's sake.

Yes, she's being attacked, but she clearly believed she had the
situation under control.  The rest of the fight definitely showed that
to be the case.

As for meeting before, yes, I was wrong about that.  The earlier
scene, however, didn't clearly show her interest in Tuxedo Kamen to be
professional rather than personal.  That, combined with the knowledge
that Tuxedo Kamen has always shown up in the first fight, makes it
seem as though they have met.  Tuxedo Kamen tends to show up when
Sailor Moon is in danger, and though she isn't in danger now (which
makes his showing up suspect in the first place), it's indicated that
she used to have a lot more trouble.  Since the author hasn't fully
convinced me of his competence through writing skill, it seems more
like a problem than something indicative of a fully developed
alternate universe.

Indicating clearly in the opening that Usagi has always fought alone
would be an obvious way to establish that she does not know him but
knows of him.

And again, this feels absolutely nothing like Usagi.

Alternate universes, alternate personalities.

Addressed earlier.

I'm wondering how they met and how their relationship developed

like

this.

And it'll most likely be explained in a chapter or three, if you're
patient...

Gee, you're so clever.  Express interest in something, and act as
though I'm impatient.

 "We'll see about that." Selene said darkly, turning to place a

single, chaste kiss on her companion's lips. "I'm going to go talk

to

mother. Take care of yourself." With that, she slid off of the

bed,

brushing her dress out and departed with a smile.

Gay people everywhere...

And they're the SAME TWO GAY PEOPLE THAT WERE ALREADY IN THIS FROM

THE

GET-GO! **ITSU AMEIZHINGU!**

Dude, can you read?  The scene clearly said that Queen Serenity was
having sex with the senshi(unspecificied numbers of senshi) and that
Endymion was having sex with Nephrite.  That's more than two people,
and that's not the same two people, either.

This isn't in the present--this is in the past!

Wrong again, Fermy. This is the past, as relived via a nightmare in

the

present. Reading comprehension. Learn it, live it, love it.

Oh, I see.  So Usagi is remembering things from other people's points
of views during times when she wasn't present.  My bad.  Yes, some
parts of that 'nightmare' are legitimate--the ones concerning
Usagi--but the rest are clearly mismanaged flashbacks rather than
memories that Usagi experienced.

Get a clue.

 Also, this whole youma approach doesn't fit with the series.

Jaedite's

youmas >always went for massive crowds, which wouldn't be found in a
house-to-house

approach.  I haven't really gotten the impression that in this AU

all

youmas rip up their victims, either--you need to go one way or the
other, I think, either they do or they don't.

You've just proven your ignorance and your invalidity as a reviewer

of this

or any other Sailormoon story. :P

First of all, this isn't a youma.

If you'd seen any of Sailormoon S, you'd know what it was.

Now...granted, THOSE monsters didn't go for this sort of gory

carnage

either, but it's implied--in context, and gleaned through *READING
COMPREHENSION*--that this daimon wasn't exactly...sane. And that it

was

rather lost in a paroxysm of bloodlust.

If you noticed my disclaimer--that I don't know beyond the first part
of the first season--then you should realize that any comments that
are inaccurate based on lack of information should be discarded.  I'm
sure the author could figure that on his own.  Big of you, though, to
jump all over such an obvious point.  Congratulations--you're right.
I don't know the whole series.  I never claimed otherwise.

Since when do youma physically kill their victims?  Again, I've

only

seen up to ep sixteen, but the victims are always drained without
physical harm.  That is also true of at least the second half of

the R

season, which I read the manga for.  I don't get this whole

covered in

her parents' blood thing.

You don't get a whole lot of things, Fermy. And again, see

above--this is

neither a youma, nor a monster behaving true to pattern. It's an

obviously

out-of-control, bloodthirsty, insane daimon--the monsters from

Sailormoon

S--that likely got away from its masters and ran amok.

Right.  Again, I disclaimered my comments quite clearly by indicating
my lack of knowledge--which implies that my comments should be taken
with that in mind.  Good job to catch that.

 "I'm so sorry, Usagi..." the cat continued, almost crying as it

lunged forward, burying itself against her midsection."

 "Luna..." the girl said, her voice rough with disuse.

Where's her brother?

Doesn't say, does it? Though by INFERRING FROM CONTEXT, we can

pretty much

guess that he's been placed in an asylum, probably for life.

Vague context is a wonderful thing, but showing is so much better.

I'd wager there'll probably be a scene in a future chapter which

will

confirm or deny this--possibly Usagi visiting her brother in the

asylum, or

whatever.

Indicating Shingo's state at this point has the benefit of making
Usagi's experience so much clearer.  This whole scene is intended to
set a mood to establish Usagi's change in character, right?  Well,
going into detail is a better way to accomplish that.

 Naru was screaming. The thing that had pretended to be her

mother

loomed over her, one hand reaching out menacingly.

 There was a hiss. And a golden light streaked past Naru's

cheek,

tearing into the creature above her. It screamed, the sound

hideous as

it dissolved into nothing.

 Then he was there. Eyes cold as he regarded her for a moment.

Then

he saluted once and vanished.

What?

Naru was attacked, Sailor Moon killed the youma, Jadeite saw the

whole

thing, Jadeite bailed.

What was so hard to figure out about that?

How hard would it be to write it?

I'm more interested in all this unrevealed backstory than I am in
what's happening now.

That's the sign of a good AU fic ^_^

That is true, except that I have no interest in the present events,
only in the past ones.

This mystery character thing is annoying.

This mystery character isn't a mystery. :P

That's why it's annoying.

Hm.  Overall thoughts?  This isn't Usagi.  The way that Usagi

ended up

here from her original state is quite unclear.

Unclear? Gee. She witnessed her parents' murder by a monster and her

brother

losing his soul, and was turned into Sailor Moon about ten minutes

too late

to prevent it. Her best friend was attacked by a monster, she's had

a

constant stream of battles against the Dark Kingdom, she's on a

personal

vengeance quest to find the monster that killed her parents...

You said she's clearly ripped from Buffy.  Well, I didn't know where
she was ripped from, but it certainly wasn't Sailor Moon.  Yes, the
causes for Usagi to change are present.  Having her change in the way
she did, however, is much more questionable.

You're right, there's absolutely nothing clear about that

whatsoever.

Quite so.

 How Usagi ended up very dominant in her relationship with Luna

isn't

indicated.

Does it need to be? Not really.

No, but it's a point of interest.

 How the whole lesbian thing with Rei showed up is never even

mentioned.

But probably will be, later...since this IS only the first

chapter...

Again, a point of interest.  I'm commenting on backstory elements that
I would like more information on.

The respectful relationship between Jaedite and Usagi that

developed isn't

very clear.  The idea of all this waiting years to happen (by this
point all of the other SM enemies should have long since shown up,
too, which is a problem) is hard to go along with.

To address the former, it's clear if you pay attention to the

context. To

address the latter...it's an AU fic. Nuff said.

Yes, their relationship is there, but it could easily be much
stronger.  Thus the "not clear" comment.

I have to say that I'm not that interested in the way things are

in

the story right now.  I'd much rather see how all of this
developed--Usagi's reaction to her parents' death (again, I don't
really think the character feels right for that) and all of the
consequences that follow.  That interests me.  I want to see all

this

happening and I want to see it happening when Usagi is still

fourteen

instead of years later when nothing makes sense.

Narrative through flashback is an effective and enjoyably

suspenseful means

of storytelling, Fermy. Granted, it requires quite a bit of reading
comprehension skills and ability to infer from context on the part

of the

reader.

The author has to be compentent enough to pull such an approach off,
but yes, it can be effective and enjoyable.  Here it wasn't.

By the way, Fermy, a bit of advice? It's not necessary to quote the

entire

chapter when replying, especially if you're not addressing specific

comments

to specific paragraphs. :P

I was making comments at the end of each section of story, with those
comments addressed to the whole section.  If that email was too big
for you, poor baby, maybe you should put me on the killfile you so
strongly declared I was now on.


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