"Philip Bloom" <dracos12@hotmail.com> wrote:

 Greetings and welcome to another session of the Evil Commentary
Bureau.

Have there been previous ones? I must've missed them.

 The author shall be allowed a single response sent to the email:
dracos12@hotmail.com.  We apologize for not being able to provide

The author will decide for himself (subject to the mailing list rules,
of course) what he is and isn't allowed, thank you.

ECB: A solid start, save for one thing: "Why?" ECBTenshi: Mwahahaha,
I am going to enter a small and likely poor restaurant and contemplate
ways I can sabotage it just because!  Look at me, I'm a rat!

It's called professional curiosity. As a web programmer, when I visit a
site I often take note of what sort of technology it uses, even though I
don't work for the site in question.

ECB: Because people dressed in an eccentric fashion that advertises
their store are obviously just the hired help.

Ever been to a MacDonald's? Ronald doesn't own the place. Neither do the
people in the fancy uniforms. Granted this attitude is more appropriate
for American restaurants; the unintentional Americanization in this is a
problem which other people have pointed out and I intend to try to
address whenever I get around to revising this fic.

 You build up a small
amount of confusion here in Tenshi that doesn't add anything and just
seems silly.  Anyone so 'knowledgable' to feel confident in shutting
down a place at a glance would certainly be perceptive enough to spot
the owner acting in the classic fashion for owners of those types of
resturaunts.

For one thing, there's a difference between feeling knowledgable and
actually *being* knowledgeable. For another, the latter doesn't
guarantee that one won't make mistakes. The primary purpose of this bit
is to show that Tenshi *does* make mistakes and at least in that sense
is not the classic Annoying New Character.

Especially when the waitress had the face and body that a guy doesn't
forget.

ECB: Yet he needed a second look to describe her?

Huh?

"Gimme the deluxe," he said. "And a beer. And tell the owner that I'd
like to have a word with her." He nodded toward the woman in the
kimono, obviously the owner, who stood on the other side pouring tea
for another customer.

ECBTenshi: "Look at me.  I come into a fast-food resturaunt where the
only visible workers in the place are high schoolers and order beer."
ECB: But if it isn't served there, why would it be on the menu or
wherever he pulled 'deluxe' out of to be ordered?
ECBTenshi: "Bah, who needs such things as menus.  I'm building my 
character!"

In my experience, people rarely look at drink menus unless they're
ordering a cocktail or something like that. It's not uncommon for people
to order Coke and be told that the restaurant serves Pepsi instead.

ECB: And the teenage 'girl' in the threadbare kimono is obviously the owner 
over the
the more confidant and assertive person taking your orders?

Now you're just pulling things out of nowhere. Who says that Konsatsu's
kimono is threadbare, or that he's any less "confidant" and assertive
with the customers?

ECB: Why in the world would anyone go after a hole in the wall
fast-food joint with that type of offer?  That's almost as bad as
walking up to the guy selling food out of his cart and asking him if
he'd be willing to pay to have the nearby resturants taken out of
commission.  It's a silly offer, especially to what is clearly a
teenager.

Well, why would a traveling salesman sell magical paper dolls to
Gosunkugi, when there'd be lots of people who could and would pay more
for them. Why would Ryoga manage to find a love-fishing rod in a
department store, when all the other characters who would obviously like
to get their hands on one can't? I don't see why the premise here is any
less believable than a lot of what happens in the original series.

She flashed a patronizing smile. "I don't think I could handle that
much business, sugar."

ECB: Reasonably patronizing, though the lead up for it doesn't make
sense.  Nor does his quick entrance and immediate throwing of his pitch
without even taking time to assess the resturant beyond a brief glance.
I mean, sheesh, you paint this guy as both incompetent beyond belief
and capable of examining and analyzing targets in the restaurant
with a glance.  You just rush right in without taking any time to build
the atmosphere.

Though I think you're overstating the case and you know it, it's true
that he is both incompetent and capable. Welcome to the Ranmaverse. It's
the same place where someone can be smart enough to learn complex
martial arts moves but can't follow even the simplest of directions. Or
strong enough to survive being slammed into a rock wall but not enough
to avoid being knocked out by a falling coconut.

"How'd you like to be the only game in town? To be able to raise your
prices as high as you like, and leave people with no choice but to eat
here?"

ECB: In a district in Tokyo?

In one particular neighborhood of that district.

 And of course, there is no one like
Kasumi around who makes their own food.

There are, but restaurant owners generally don't consider them to be
competition. Unless they're self-insert characters, strangers don't
often decide to drop in at the Tendos' becase the prices at Ucchan's are
too high.

 And why would a con-man set up
for a long term job with the local Yakuza after him?

One particular group of thugs, who may or may not be Yakuza (Tenshi says
they are, but he isn't exactly a reliable source) is after him. He
doesn't expect to run into them in this neighborhood.

ECBTenshi:
"It's just for the excitement!  After all, I can make more money if I
have to deal with hiding from crimelords and evading bullets when
trying to make a pitch at a fast food joint." ECBRealLife: And a part
time resturant owner wouldn't laugh at the concept of being the only
food supplier for about a half million people?

She might if that were the actual offer, yes.

BTW, in the event you do more of these commentaries, for readability's
sake you might want to consider skipping a line between each virtual
speaker's comments.

ECB: Ranma has big muscles?  Anyhow, nice analogy, though this is
probably the most observation skills you've given this putz so far.
ECBLogictrain: *Beep Beep* There's a tree in the road.
ECB: It's observant actually to the point of disbelief.  He manages to see
Ranma's ass when he's lumbering in and towards them?  How?  Did he have
a mirror set up behind Ranma?

Who said Ranma was making a direct bee line to Ukyo? That tends to be
hard to do in a restaurant.

Glancing back at Tenshi, the waitress flipped an okonomiyaki in his
direction. It slid across the counter, stopping precisely in front of
him. "Enjoy, sugar. Then leave. I don't think we can do business."

ECB: Who would eat an okonomiyaki that was flipped off the grill, onto
the counter, and then slid across it to stay in front of them... with
no plate?

ECBUkyo: But I serve all my okonomiyaki fresh off the counter
without plates.  The sink is just decoration.

Again, I think you're trying to apply a higher standard of realism here
than in the original series. The image of sliding an okonomiyaki across
the bar like a glass of beer in an old Western was, in my opinion,
amusing enough to include, and not any more unbelievable than much of
what goes on in the manga.

"Hey, Ucchan!" pretty boy called. "Is my food ready yet? I gotta get
goin'!"

ECB: The usage of proper nouns escapes you, doesn't it?

Evidently it escapes one of us. See Peter Ahlstrom's response in this
thread.

"Um... yeah, Ran-chan." The giant spatula swung into action. "I'll just
box it up for you."

ECB: Ranma... needs to box his food and carry it out?  Since when?  He
eats like a speed demon on steroids.

Got a cite from the manga for this? I can't remember him speed-eating
without a specific reason for it, and I can think of plenty of scenes
that show him eating normally.

ECB: You know, there's something off about this whole scene.  It rubs
one wrong not so much from a Make Sense angle but more the: "Who is
this guy and what did he do with Ranma?"  Ranma shows countless
times in the series that he doesn't make up unless prodded to.

Who says he wasn't prodded?

Especially with minor spats.  And Ukyo doesn't try to capitalize
on it at all?  GO SPINELESS FIANCEE!

What exactly do you expect her to do?

ECB: You know, I can't follow this logic leap.  It makes no sense.
She knows he's an obvious con-man, but how she gets from: "I offer to
wreck your business competition" to "Hey, I'm a master of romantic
intrigue and can get rid of your rivals" without any prodding from the
departing con-man is beyond me.  I mean sheesh, it's like assuming
because Ranma could physically protect someone, that he's the guy to
hire to do your math homework.  The leap makes no sense.

Actually, it's your analogy which makes no sense. The same basic skills,
or at least a good portion of them, apply to convincing customers to
switch restaurants as to convincing a person to switch his love
interest. There are no skills in common between hitting people and
hitting the math books.

As to your point, yes, I could have spent more time developing Ukyo's
reasons for putting her faith in this guy. I chose not to, because I
wanted to get on with the story and showing the *consequences* of her
decision, and because generally people didn't have a problem with it.
It's been nearly a year and a half since this fic was released, before
which it was previewed in various one-hour challenges, and nobody but
you (and/or your anonymous collaborators) have expressed a problem with
this leap. So I'm really going to have to hear some fresh opinions
before changing it.

 Even worse,
it makes him trying it again as your ending seem like you forgot he was
leery of it in the first place!

Um... come again? Even allowing for the grammatical errors, I can't tell
what you were trying to say here.

ECB: And again we ask, why is he taking the job?  There is obviously
not money in it.  It even goes against his whole mentality above.  Why

What are you talking about? Of course there's money in it. He's a
mercenary, and as such is going to work for whoever is willing to hire
him.

ECB: Why is she fixated on this random con-man?  He's neither shown
any demonstrated skill at his art, any reason to latch on to him, nor
even proposed the concept in the first place.  I mean, assuming in
context of your fic she's reached the point she doesn't believe she can
win him herself (Which is one of your premises), she just out of the
blue is latching on to a random person without even trying anything
nutsy herself first?

She's tried plenty of "nutzy" on her own and it all backfired or came to
naught. At this point, she has very little to lose.

Okay, so maybe changing the subject would be a good idea. "This Ranma
of yours... he got other women after him, or just you?"

ECB: He's already figured it out as you showed on camera before, moreso
how exactly did he understand what she was asking at all without her
explaining the situation first?  Logic-flaw.  He either knows it's a
soap opera before this point and is merely asking specific details
or he does not.  Only one works.
ECBLogictrain: *TOOT TOOT*
ECB: Oh, one more hole... she's not called him Ranma yet.  Nor has anyone 
else.
And as you show right below, she seems to be referring to him as
Ran-chan in the entire discussion.  So how does he know that his name
isn't just Ran or Ran-chan?  Where does he magically gain the second
syllable?

From, one can assume, conversations that took place during the scene
break indicated by the "***".

You know, I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here. But when
you harp at length on trivial points that are easily explained away with
a little thought, and that have no real importance anyway, it makes me
feel that I'm probably wasting my time responding to you.

ECB: A weak attempt at comedy.  There's only so far you can pull the
misrecognition joke.  He'd have to be a total idiot to assume that
someone he ranks as '5 star babe' is having trouble competing against
an old woman.  It's just too farfetched to be funny.

Again, I'm going to have to hear from more readers on this, considering
that nobody else has had (or at least expressed) a problem with it.

"Uh huh. And she doesn't have a lot of shame when it comes to showing
it, either. She's been known to sneak naked into the shower with him,
or into his bed while he's sleeping."

ECB: Ukyo knows this?  From where?  Minor point really, but I think
you are attributing her knowledge she has no reason to have.

Ranma or any of the Tendos might have mentioned it to her.

ECB: Where does Ukyo get the cash?  Why does this guy start at all
without any payment arrangement?  He doesn't even have the semi-decent
concept you provided before of: "if he's increasing her business
share, he can blackmail her later and skim large amounts off the top of
her increased earnings."  Here he's working towards a situation
where she'd be able to pay him less as she's spending more time fawning
over her boyfriend.  Moreso, he spends an apparently ungodly amount
of money on it while already being in debt.  Where's all the cash
coming from?  Ukyo's secret stock exchange?

I don't know. Where did she get the cash to open her restaurant in the
first place? For that matter, what's Soun Tendo's source of income?
Again, you're asking for a higher standard than is maintained in the
original series.

"All right, then," she said, obvious unease coloring her voice. *Little
miss high-and-mighty,* he thought with a chuckle, *embarrassed
to have to deal with a scumbag like me.* She was no different than he
was. Not really. Some joker comes into her restaurant and plunks down
five hundred yen for an okonomiyaki, and she delivers the goods. The
guy could be an axe murderer for all she knows , and all she cares is
how big a tip he leaves when he's done. That's all it's about. *You
pay, and I play.* It's what business is all about.

ECB: Why did you just switch writing styles here?  This has all been
in his third-person limited perspective.  You were clearly showing
his thoughts just a few paragraphs above without markers.  Why the
sudden switch to them now?
ECBMeow: I would recommend that you take them out entirely.  While
I could expound on the reasons why, I think this parody fic should
make the reasons clear.
ECBLinker: http://www.garykleppe.org/fanfic/thekey.txt

Evidently you missed the point of that parody, which was to satirize
people who waste space explaining what their symbols mean. I;ve never
argued against the use of symbols themselves. As for the supposed switch
in styles, there's a difference between a character thinking in words
and coming up with an exact phrase in his mind expressing what he's
thought, versus a character just thinking. The first person marked tex
indicates the former, the third-person unmarked text the latter. If I
were writing for print text I'd use italics for the first, but that
isn't possible in plain text.

Tenshi dropped his feet to the floor and straightened out his back.
"As far as this little... ad campaign... is concerned, there's two ways
you can play it. Positive, or negative. Positive means you tell 'em how
wonderful your own product is and how much it'll enrich their lives.
Negative means you attack the competitor's product, you tell them how
bad off they are 'cause they didn't buy yours instead."

ECB: Minor grammar point, abusing ellipsis==Bad.

And abusing C syntax is even worse. Hint: you want something like
abusingEllipses.isBad() == true. (Or TRUE or True depending on exactly
which language or variant you're using.)

Now perhaps you can tell me why you think I'm abusing ellipses here?
True, technically I should either space after each dot or not space
after the last one, but either of those approaches creates word wrapping
problems in plain text. If you mean I shouldn't use ellipses at all
there, well... I'm not sure how else I'd indicate his pause there.
Having the narrator explicitly say "he paused" seems like it'd be a
little clumsy.

"Hm." Ukyo put a hand to her chin. "Which do you think we should do?"

"Well, your boy's got other women chasing him. So going negative
against the lead contender isn't gonna help if someone else comes in to
pick up

ECB: Which, as I'll note, he doesn't know which is the lead contender
as he hasn't asked.  More on this later.

Of course he does. It was obvious from the opening scene.

ECB: This really isn't the standard context of an ECB.  It's not
something I teach the other reviewers to note or pay attention to or
something that really belongs in one.  But in this case, I not only
couldn't help but notice it, but ran it by several others to check as
well.  And frankly, no one missed the pathetic swipe at Zen's Long and
Winding Road here.  Whether you think it's good natured or not, your
attempt to swipe here wrecked a large part of your fic.  You suffered

>from tunnel vision and thus didn't make the scene anywhere near as

funny as it could be.  A pity, but such is the fate of most people
who are trapped in rantficcing.

It's satire. I don't know whether Zen's read this particular fic, but in
general Zen's never had a problem with my parodying his work and has
always taken it good-naturedly. I don't know why you can't, too, or why
you think it's wrecked this fic. How do you think I should've done it
differently? (And just telling me to take out the L&WR references isn't
an answer. I asked what you think I *should* have done, not what I
*shouldn't.*)

Vice Principal Tsumaranai of Furinkan paged through the expense reports
on his desk, resisting the urge to tear out what was left of his hair.

ECB: Vice Principal... Boring?  Uninteresting?  Useless?  Was that
supposed to be some in joke that you forgot to clear up in your
author's notes?  Or did you simply pull a stupid name out of nowhere?

I needed a name. Stuff like this is an in-joke for people who bother to
look it up.

Five hundred thousand yen to build a simulated jungle in the basement?
How was he going to explain this to the school authorities? Yet if he
didn't find some way of reconciling the budget, there wouldn't be
anything left to pay the faculty. Not to mention the administrators,
a certain one of whom had a wife and two daughters at home, counting
on him to bring back a paycheck that they could use to put food on the
table.

ECB: Seriousness of this type hurts the funny.  You are attempting
to bring the reality of the whole Ranmaverse in here and provide a
'need' in which the crap con-man shows up with his imaginary money

What are you talking about? This comment makes no sense.

(That would go better to well, paying off the yakuza).

As I noted in a subsequent scene, it isn't his money. He's getting it
from advertisers.

ECB: Mr. Practice now?  Boy, I guess having a little hint for your
non-japanese readers is too much!

Since you were (erroneously) trying to rip on my use of proper nouns
before, I'll point out that Japanese should be capitalized.

ECB: Where's he getting the money immediately from this?  Ukyo?  I do
hope you cover this later.
ECBRealism: You know, people don't ask questions like this when you don't
strive to add measures of Realism like cops and health agencies to your 
story.

Realism isn't a proper noun, chuckles.

ECB: And here we wonder why the screwup isn't that Ukyo gets casted
as something other than the lead.  Or why he didn't put Ukyo clearly
in the lead role?  Why leave it to chance?

Because he knows she's going to volunteer for it.

ECB: Amusing character that is underused in this fic.  Very underused.
Of course, given you do almost the entire play off camera, that's no
surprise.  It's amazing how you run with things that suck, and give
barely any time to stuff that has the potential to work.  I mean, even
if this is stupid, it's at least Takahashi stupid and thus fits in
well.

If you (or whoever ghosted this particular bit for you) think Takahashi
(work) is stupid, why are you even reading a Ranma fic, let alone one
that's as close to original flavor as this one?

Sorry, but that's the limit of my patience. So far, about all you've
done is to harp on some rather nitpicky points and throw out insults
like "suck" and "crap" without any sort of argument or explanation that
might persuade me to see things your way and what you think I should've
done differently. While you certainly have every right to your opinions,
this kind of feedback isn't of any use to me, and I'm not going to waste
my time reading any further.

Have a nice day,

Gary Kleppe
http://www.garykleppe.org/comics.html

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