Subject: [FFML] Re: [fanfic][ranma]Lure the Tiger from the Mountains 11-13/30
From: allynyonge0000@netscape.net (allyn yonge)
Date: 10/12/2002, 10:11 PM
To: gary@garykleppe.org (Gary Kleppe)
CC: ffml@anifics.com


Comments @@
Hi,
I am "running the Red Queen's race", so I'm going to give you some quick feed back, before i fall so far behind, I meet myself.




<SNIP>
     Akane listened to the soft even breathing coming

soft, even

     Onna-Ranma's eyes snapped open as Akane's foot
hit the first stair and the transformed martial-artist stared

martial artist

into the darkness.

You may want a scene break or skipped line here. I got confused at first
by the sudden jump cut to the dojo.


@@Ooops. I missed that one completely. Thanks.
@@@@


     After a few preliminary stretches to loosen her
shoulders and waist, Akane took a deep breath, trying to
center herself

AKANE: There. Got it. Ah. No. Wait. I'm still an inch or two closer to
the north wall. Darn.

<SNIP>


     *A martial artist defends the defenseless* . . .

AKANE: So I'm only supposed to defend people who are defenseless?

SOUN: That is correct.

AKANE: But if I defend someone, aren't they no longer defenseless? And
wouldn't I therefore have to stop defending them?

SOUN: Life is indeed a difficult road to travel.

@@GENMA: "Just kill them all, let God sort them out."

GOD: "Let's see, that's three hundred right-wing arse-holes, two-gross
street-thugs, one fat, balding, no-good-bastard future father-in-law - -

GENMA: "On the other hand, there's something to be said for turning the other cheek."
@@@@

<SNIP>

     "I'll go with you," Akane started to get up, and the

you."

world spun crazily, the court-yard going red, then black as
the moonlight drained away to the sounds of the oceans
roar.
"It's a martial artists duty." is what Akane wanted to say,

artist's duty,"

but all that came out was a pitiful moan as she seemed to
crumple in on herself.

RANMA: But I'm not defenseless.

@@AKANE: "Have you read Chapter 24?"
RANMA: <reading ahead> "Eeeeek! Stunt double!"
@@@@

<SNIP>
     "K . . .Kami-sama couldn't make your father look
good." Akane whispered, just as he started to feel for her

good,"

pulse.

Isn't "Kami-sama" as a single entity an OMG thing? Aren't the kami
multiple entities in actual Japanese mythology?

@@Hmmm . . .I'll have to search through my stuff on Shinto and Japanese 
Mythology. I could have sworn that I'd picked that up from my reading.
It couldn't have been from OMG directly, as I've never read/seen it. BUT,
it's quite possible I miss-remembered OR got it from a faulty source.
@@@@


<SNIP>

watching the Tendou compound. From his vantage points

vantage point
(unless she's moving around or something)

I still think "he" for Ukyo from his own POV (or that of the omniscient
narrator) is cheating. Unless it turns out that "he" actually *is* a he
in this continuity, of course.

@@Chapter 25 is all Ukyou's (and Nabiki)
We get to meet Ukyou's father AND see the whole
terrible time that blighted Ukyou's young life.
Oooo, AND, we get to find out WHY 
Ukyou trained "against the raging sea" (well,
a little bit, anyway) I think I spent more
time on Ukyou in this story than any other
single character.
@@@@


<SNIP>

     Ranma would get off the train when it stopped, but
Chin would board the Windy. Ranma grinned to himself.
He'd let Ukyou get _just_ close enough to see that he'd
disguised himself as Chin before he lost him on board. . .
then, a quick splash of cold water, a dark wig, and he'd
stroll off the boat. Very obviously female and of no interest
to Kuonji Ukyou.

RANMA: Funny how I never needed a dark wig in the manga. 

@@AKANE: "Funny how you never FOOLED anyone except Ryouga!"

RYOUGA: <hiding engagement ring behind back> "I knew it was Ranma all the time!" 
@@@@

@@As a minor aside, no one chokes on a girl turning into a cat, or
a 130? lb boy changing into a 20? lb piglet, or a boy changing into a girl, but there's a problem if there's a change of hair colour? (I only balk at lavender hair as a genetic norm w/o some tiny mention in the story.  This is only BEFORE going into a cursed spring. Coming out of
a magic effect, they could reasonably have plaid hair. Very tragic story of Scots Bagpipe player murdered in cursed spring just last week.)
@@@@



       Kuonji couldn't possibly finish searching the
"Windy" before she reached Hong Kong. After that . . .
Ukyou'd have to decided to stick with the ship for the entire

have to decide to

tour, or get off in Hong Kong. And he wouldn't know
whether to look for Saotome Ranma, or Chin Akazara (who
was in Shanghai at the moment and would be surprised to
learn he was sailing on the Norwegian Wind) or someone

So Chin's a real person whose name Ranma borrowed, not a made-up alias?
Wasn't clear in the above.

@@Sorry. Chin's a real person who's identity Ranma stole. Perhaps i should
have left that parenthetical part out? I added it because i thought it added verisimilitude to the story (since that sort of thing really happens. I got the idea reading about identity theft) Better to leave out? Or should i elaborate a bit for clarity?
@@@@

<SNIP>

Need to take out that last comma. As written, I had to wonder why there
*were* regional championships and national rankings for warrior nuns and
monks. ^_^;;

SOUN: Well, I do like to embellish these tales to make them more
dramatic. I mean, if Hollywood can do it....

@@ANNOUNCER: "OHH! And Sister Mary-Margaret has just
used her famous Hail-Mary-Full-of-Whoop-Ass move to take out
Stone Cold Steve Austin. And it looks like The Rock is in trouble, 
as the Fighting-Nun cracks him across the knuckles yet again with a ruler!"
@@@@

<SNIP>
     Looking around, Akane decided the rest of the club
was productively occupied and finally turned to Ranko, who
had been silently trailing her. "Sorry to keep you waiting,
but some of the girls don't do their weight training if I don't
keep after them."

RANMA: Why should you be sorry? Wasn't that the whole point?

AKANE: Huh?

RANMA: You said it was wait training, right?

@@ <GROAN!>
@@@@

<SNIP>

muttered, "maybe they've finally put an emotion-chip in th'

muttered. "Maybe

("Maybe" would start a new sentence if you wrote the dialog by itself.)

emotion chip

Borg."

IIRC, it was Data who lacked emotion until he got the chip. The Borg's
big thing was to assimilate people, so Data would probably fit better
for Akane, though of course it might just be that these ladies don't
know the show too well. :)

@@Akane's nickname is "Borg" (as shown earlier in the
story, it's not entirely the secret they may think it is.
 Plus, Data was and android while the Borg are 
organic + machine.
@@@@


<SNIP>

     *She's a damn machine!* Onna-Ranma watched

I'd just use "Ranma" (do we really need to be reminded of his current
gender every paragraph?) but that's just me.


@@<sigh< No, we really don't. :( <author hides face in shame>
I thought I'd fixed a lot of those. I tried an experiment in the
first couple of drafts, using Ranko when it was an outside POV
and Onna-Ranma when Ranma was thinking of 'himself" but
it never worked out the way I wanted it to. I still think it's a good
idea, but needs more work.
I got rid of all but one or two (where I thought it worked better) but
I guess I missed a few. 
@@@@
<SNIP>

nuthin',*

The pronoun avoidance is getting a little hard not to notice. ^_^ Though
given the shifting POV, I really can't come up with a better solution,
other than maybe combining sentences together so you don't need as many
references.

@@Yeah, that drove me crazy. And I DID combine. You should 
have seen it before draft 10? (I think this was draft 10. I'm up to 12
right now) I was never satisfied with this chapter because of that.
I think I should have just given in and used Ranko/she through out.
Though I was trying to show Ranma having a hard time keeping
'his' gender straight. 
@@@@
<SNIP>

      Most of the swimming club, about fifteen girls in
swim-suits and sweats, were being crowded into the corner
by half-again their number of greasy punks in pin-stripped
suits, while a few more of their number amused themselves
by various acts of vandalism.

PUNK #1: You've got a nice swimming pool here, haven't you, Captain.

PUNK #2: We wouldn't want anything to happen to it, would we, Captain.

AKANE: Nope. I'm stopping this scene, as it's far too silly.

@@??? You didn't like my Japanese Junior Mafia scene?
<sigh> I can see that I need more detail.
@@@@
<SNIP>

change before the first bell." She looked at Choe, who was
holding the edge of a towel against her bleeding nose. "Go
on to the nurse now. I'll let your teacher know where you
are."

AKANE: And you might want to mention to the principal that these
gentlemen assaulted you.

CHOE: Oh, they didn't.

AKANE: Huh?

CHOE: It just happens to my nose sometimes, when I see a boy with really
large--

AKANE: All right, I don't think I need to hear this.

@@AKANE: "Let me just get my notebook, so I 
don't forget any details.
@@@@

@@^_*
I guess I need to put in a bit to remind everyone that
these guys work for  principle Kunou? I implied it in chapter 5, but
I suppose I need to refresh the readers memory.
@@@@

<SNIP>
     "You don't want no trouble?"   A glob of spittle hit
Akane's cheek with an audible sound. "You _got_ trouble!"
Goro sneered.

Two sneers in three paragraphs. Typical Yonge villain. ^_^;;;

@@Hmmm . . .I guess I better work on my villains.
I missed the double "sneered". I DO base my villains on
actual bad guys. I reckon I'd better work on putting
them across on paper. Part of the problem is, that
the people I'm basing them on are SO nasty, that I can't
wait for them to get creamed. ^_*
@@@@

<SNIP>

"you dirty Korean!" The blob of mucous hit between

"You

Choe's eyes with a splat.

CHOE: I just showered!

GORO: You... you clean Korean!

@@LOL
@@@@
<SNIP>

softly. Goro's knees hit the tiles with an audible crack as his
forehead slammed into the ground at Choe's feet, proving
the adage; 'if you grab them by the throat, their hearts and

adage: 'If

minds will follow.'

AKANE: Or not, but does it really matter?

@@LOL
@@@

<SNIP>

     "Faith isn't going to keep Kunou from killing you,
you stupid girl!" Nabiki was rapidly losing it. "You haven't
done any serious Kenjutsu in two years, and that bastard
_sleeps_ with a sword."

KUNO: Not true. I'll have you know that that relationship is still in
the "heavy petting" stage.

@@ROTFLOL!!!
@@@@

<SNIP>

screw up my meal ticket.* Onna-Ranma fiddled with her
pig-tail in an unconscious mannerism that Genma hadn't
been able to completely eradicate even with years of a rattan
cane. *Now if I were a right-wing arse-hole, where would I
be, right now?*

*sigh* This is just dying for a quip, but alas, such would be too
topical/political for the list.... *grumble*

@@Don't hurt yourself holding back. ^_*
Besides, the only reason I didn't use Japanese
LEFT wing arse-holes, is that the right wing
are better dressers. ^_* (seriously. The right wing
fanatics have cool military cut 'uniforms' and
martial music. The left wing are kind of scruffy, though
they DO like to blow things up a lot. They held up
the Kansai Airport for over ten years with rocket attacks
and fire bombs. TLC showed some nice footage of them
blowing up the construction site, but they just wore bandanas over their
faces. NO sense of style at all. :( )
@@@@
     At first, he'd intended to simply find some hot
water, find Kunou and shove that stick of his so far up his
bung-hole he'd look like a unicorn. But then he remembered

RANMA: Huh huh huh huh huh huh huh Kuno's a wuss.

("Bunghole" strikes me as too Beavis-and-Buttheadish, but again maybe
that's just me.)

@@I was trying to avoid being too graphic.  I've never watched
B&B, or I would have used something else.
@@@

     *There he is.* Onna-Ranma watched Kunou,
surrounded by his entourage, step onto the fourth floor
landing and she started trotting up the steps toward him.
Just looking at the arrogant Samurai-wannabe reinforced his
initial impression that Kunou was a sneaky, ruthless son-of-
a-bitch who would use any underhanded trick to win.

     *Wonder if he's related to Pop?*

RANMA: Have we mentioned yet that the Genma in this universe is evil?

KUNO: I believe once or twice, yes.

@@Well he IS. I'm basing him on, among other things
Irish Travelers, and a few books I've got (Scams, Swindles
and Rip-Offs" by Graham M. Mott.
I guess they made so much sense to me, I neglected to
fully describe Genma on paper. I just KNEW he was really
nasty customer. I should have spent more time on him.
@@@@

     Tokuyama Hiroshi, Kunou's sub-lieutenant, was
watching a basket full of puppies wrestling under Ranko's
shirt, when the perky little girl smiled at him and took a
deep breath.

KUNO: Puppies? Cute, defenseless little PUPPIES?! I must slowly torture
them to death for the sheer enjoyment! Nya ha ha!

HIROSHI: It's just a visual metaphor.

KUNO: Oh.

HIROSHI: All I get to do in this fic is ogle women from afar, I suppose.

KUNO: That's all you ever get to do anyhow.

@@ROTFLOL!!!

Q: I KNOW I've not done a good job with Genma, thus far.
But I thought I'd kept Kuno rather understated. He's not supposed
to be crazy or needlessly cruel. He IS fanatically nationalistic.
Did I completely miss the mark? Or do I just need to flesh out
the characterization?
@@@

<SNIP>

probably not so bad." But her eyes said she didn't believe it.

NABIKI: My ears are still noncommital on the subject, and my nose is
prepared to take your word. But my eyebrows definitely think you're full
of crap.

AKANE: Is that true?

NABIKI: Yup, and you'd better face it.

@@<GROAAAAN!>
@@@@

<SNIP>
     Leaning back against a tree several hours later,
Ranma folded his hands comfortably across his stomach and
sighed. Life was good. The guys weren't as appreciative of
Ranma as they were of Ranko ( thank Kami-sama) but the

(thank

     "Uhhh . . .thanks Akane," Ranma looked wistfully at

thanks, Akane."

the contents of the colourful bento, "but I'm really full.

bento. "But

     *Thank you Kami-sama*, Nabiki thought in heart-

*Thank you,

     "Oh . . .well, if you're sure," Akane held Ranma's

sure."

IMO, you need more of a twist to wring comedy out of Akane's cooking.
Just saying in effect "oh boy, is it ever bad" doesn't do much; we all
*know* it's bad. Maybe have someone who's expecting it to be good, or is
forced to pretend that it's good, or at least some goofier excuses.
You've written some good comedy fics in the past (the one that comes to
mind is that Akane-as-Ranma story) so I fully expect you can do better
than this.


@@^_O I'm glad you have such confidence in me.
The food gag is a running gag, up until the very last line in the story.
In fact the entire story is a set up for the ending. There are actually
two endings, the dramatic ending, then several low key comedic ending
in the prologue to tie up some loose ends. Plus the food gag.
Actually, it's not that Akane's cooking is bad, it's based on some actual
'health food nuts' I've known, and some I've read about. All of her 'cooking' is extremely nutritious . . .just a little odd.
@@@@ 
<SNIP>
tree, waiting

     " . . . 'My name is Akane' . . ." Ranma yelled,
shaking his  iinazuke like a rag-doll. "Are you CRAZY!"

You misspelled "fiancee".

@@Actually when I go from Word Perfect to ASCII,
fianc tends to lose it's terminal 'e'. It's easier to use
iinazuke. 
I use 'furo' because it's not actually a bathtub, bathing
being done separately, and 'hot tub' doesn't really
match either. 
@@@@

CRAZY?!"

     "Are you saying I'm stupid!" Akane pushed away

stupid?!"

     "Of course not!" A little vein began throbbing in his
forehead. "you're not smart enough to be stupid, you

"You're

     "The justice of heaven is slow but sure," the monk

RANMA: Sorry, but I guess you missed the casting call. We've already
*got* a Kuno in this fic.

MONK: I'm his secret identity, buffoon.

(Actually, I'd guess that this is this universe's Ryoga, but I could
certainly be wrong.)

@@Chapter 21. ^_*
@@@@

<SNIP>

     "One and Two and Three and Four and . . ." Fifteen!
You did 'five' compressions if you had someone else to
breath, otherwise it was 'fifteen and two' "Five and Six and

AKANE: Why must these Cribbage rules be so complicated?!

@@And how many times do you get to bring 'Cribbage' into a fanfic discussion?
@@@@

<SNIP>


Well, I very much liked the beginning of this installment. Akane's
introspection scene in the dojo was a nice glimpse into her character,
and the emotion came across well. 

@@Thank Anand Chilean for that. He thought 
Akane was too violent, w/o good reason. I just
added some things that were more fully developed in
Chapter: 18 with the flashbacks on "little Akane". 
@@@@

Also, leading Ukyo away was a good
showcase for Ranma's ability as a con artist.
@@Thanks. I rather liked that one myself.
@@@@



I wasn't quite so happy with the middle, however -- most notably the
Goro scene, which seemed like a case of "make the readers hate the
character so they'll cheer when he gets his butt kicked." It's hard to
put into words exactly what bugs me about this sort of thing. It engages
the emotions, which is good, but at least in my case, tends to leave the
higher brain functions cold. The inherent message seems to be that there
are good people and bad people, and all the former have to do to make
everything right is to beat the crap out of the latter. 

@@Well, that much worked. IMO, there are a great many
"bad people" who are greatly improved by the suitable application
of a blunt object, repeatedly, along side their heads. ^_*
There are some people who can NOT be reasoned with. OR, 
while you are reasoning, they are trying (and succeeding) in
parting your hair with a crowbar. I'm basing this on both
personal experience and on reading various books, articles, etc
@@@@

Your mileage may
vary, and I know this view is very prevalent in popular culture, but
personally, I find it a very simpleminded way of looking at things,
probably a good part of what lets someone like Goro rationalize to
himself what he does.

@@Well, I agree, up to a point. I prefer reason and philosophical
discussions myself.  However, there are times, places, situations and people where the short, sharp application of violence or the threat of violence are the best or only solution.  I could cite the Spartans at Marathon or the Nazis in WWII (who would probably have profited by some violence judiciously applied sooner rather than later) or I could make reference to "The Ayoob Files: The Book" by Massad Ayoob or "Tactics for Criminal Patrol: Vehicle Stops, Drug Discovery & Officer Survival" by Charles Remsberg (and "Street Survival" and "The Tactical Edge" also by Charles Remsberg) or a personal experience with a rather unpleasant person intent on forcing himself into my apartment stopping only when faced with 160lbs of angry Irish Wolfhound. 

However, the real problem is that I obviously didn't make this clear in my
story.  The difficulty is, that I'm so familiar with similar situations, it seemed self evident to me. A BAD mistake for an author. I didn't put myself in the readers place. Now that it's been pointed out to me, I'll try to avoid it in the future. And make corrections in unposted chapters.
@@@@


Again, the above is all just my own opinion; others may differ, but I
happen to be the one writing this C&C. :P  I think that if you're going
to use Goro and Kuno, it would help to give them more of a motivation,
both in the long-term (e.g. why do they fear Koreans?) and the
short-term (e.g. why barge into Akane's gym at this particular time?)

@@Unfortunately (for my writing), it was self-evident to me. The Japanese hate the Koreans (the feeling seems to be mutual, with rather more reason on the side of the Koreans.) To the extent that a Japanese anthropologist who discovered evidence that the Japanese are actually descended from Koreans, was assassinated or threatened with assassination. (I'd have to go through my notes to check on that one) This is a  generalization of course. But anti-Korean violence is a big part of Japanese ultra-nationalism. Rather like Nazis and Jews in WWII. However, your comments have shown me that I failed to actually make this clear IN the story.
Oh well, I'm already doing a rewrite of a Kuno/Akane scene, so I'll try to address this problem at that time.
@@@@

Anyhow, I will say that I liked the ending battle with the
as-yet-unidentified Monk. True, he's yet another foe with no
compunctions about attacking a probable innocent bystander, but his mode
of attack was a change from the usual, he was powerful enough to yield a
suspenseful battle scene, and Nabsy's way of countering him was quite
clever.

@@Thanks. I hoped that worked. The reader will get so see actual
motivations later in the story. My idea was that people who are
sufficiently angry don't always worry about collateral damage.
Oh well . . .I've learned something from this. I'll use it in the
Kunou/Akane scene. (Once I finish rewriting a Nabiki scene I've
been working on revising for the last week. ^_*)

As always, thanks so much for taking the time and trouble
to give such detailed C&C.


Overall, I'm enjoying the series, as always. Another one down, some more
to go. :)


Gary Kleppe
http://www.garykleppe.org/comics.html


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