Comments on Comments##
"Ryan Erik" <ryanerik@redshift.com> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allyn Yonge" <allynyonge0000@netscape.net>
To: <ffml@anifics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 1:46 AM
Subject: [FFML] [fanfiction][ranma] Lure the Tiger from the Mountains 1-2/30
<SNIP>
"Shut up!" Ranma smacked his father's bald head
with a rotting board, knowing better than to hit so hard an
object with his bare hand. He looked at the tiny, pale
appendage in disgust. Especially now. "This is all _your_
fault, anyway!"
Tiny, pale appendage? Is he referring to his now cursed hand?
That's an odd way to describe it. It puts a bizare image in my
head, like a mishapen at birth disfigurement.
## :( My fault. I had a pre-reader point that out to me as
well. And I never quite liked it myself. OTOH, for some
reason, I never figured out how to fix it.
This is a common problem, for me, on very long stories, btw.
When I'm writing, it's as if a movie is playing inside my head,
VERY fast, and I'm typing like mad to keep up. Sometimes
I don't have time to figure out how to describe in words what
I'm seeing. The result is a little jumbled. And, sometime I miss
putting in entire scenes. I KNOW it happened, I just never
put it down on paper.
That's why I appreciate C&C so much. ^_^
When a reader says:
"That doesn't make sense!"
"How did you get from A to B?"
Sort of thing, then I know that what I _wrote_ on paper doesn't
match what I'm _reading_. Because in my head, I'm filling in the gaps, but
an outside reader can't do that. And complains (C&C) about
"tiny, pale appendage" which lets me know I goofed.
I could _see_ the whole scene in the warehouse as it was
happening. And I could see Ranma looking at his (her) hand
with revulsion. Like he woke up to find a mass of rotting worms
growing out of his wrist, instead of a hand. It's tiny and
pale and 'girly' as opposed to his big, road-tanned MASCULINE
hand. It's alien and he doesn't like it.
Actually, describing it to you like this, helps me think of
a better way to describe the scene.
##
<SNIP>. When his son made no move to honor his request
he fumbled in the rotting trash that covered part of the floor
until he came up with a heavy jug and drank thirstily.
That's a long sentence. It could use a comma like so
"request, he fumbled"
not that it matters tho heh =)
##Comma? Comma? You know, I think I've
heard of those things. ^_^
Could be worse. There was a fellow in
my wife's English class know as the
CommaKaze! Because he used so may
comma's.
##
<SNIP>
"Sur . . .ely you don't blame _me_ for our present
troubles," Genma replied, with such exquisite diction that it
was nearly impossible to tell he had consumed enough
alcohol to kill ten ordinary men.
Sur...ely he spoke a bit slurred, though?
##Hmmm . . .I was trying to convey that
Genma was at that stage of intoxication where
drunks over-compensate and do everything
with exaggerated precision. Remember,
Genma is a long-time alcoholic (I hope that's
evident from what's gone one. If not, I
need a rewrite.) So his metabolism is
different from a normal person's.
##
<SNIP>
"It's OK pops," his face tightened as he thought of
_her_, the woman who had turned his big, brave pop into
this drunken wreck of a man. "I'll take care of you." And
I'll never let another woman hurt you, he though grimly.
I'll never let one get her dirty claws into me, neither.
Now that's some serious mind-messing Genma's done there.
I can already see Ranma's going to be in the contempt of the
opposite sex. I can barely imagine how much more he hates
his cursed for now...
##^_^ you ain't seen nothing yet. (In terms of mind messing)
As for Ranma's feelings toward the fair sex . . .
I'll let you judge as the story progresses.
I will give a minor spoiler. I deliberately did NOT
make this story as 'dark' as I could have.
In fact I've gone back and re-written
several scenes that were pretty grim.
And, they're better for it.
##
<SNIP>
Very interesting scene. I can already see a few roads the
new and "improved" Ranma is going. You gave much info
without having to go through the hoops of restating the
opening story from the original R1/2. =)
##Thank you. That was my intention. I'm glad
I succeeded.
##
*****
*****
"Married?" Tendou Nabiki almost dropped the dish
she was drying. "Are you kidding? I can't get married now.
I want to get into a good college."
Being married would stop her? Hmm...in a traditional Japanese
marriage, yes, you're right. Pretty hardcore story version of R1/2
so far. Just don't go the whole darkfic route please. They always
end so messed up! :P
##Actually, it's pretty difficult for a married woman
even now. It's still assumed that a woman's real
role is as wife/mother. There are VERY few married
women going into college. (According to my reading)
In fact there's a term called "Marriage Retirement"
because married women aren't supposed to take up
a job that a man could use. ^_^ Even under normal
conditions in the USA it's more difficult to
start college AND a marriage at the same time.
Lots of stress involved.
This is good to know. I thought this was pretty
clear. But you've made me think about it. In
retrospect I should perhaps have had Nabiki
or Kasumi mention something that made
the situation clearer. Nabiki in fact does
do this, but several chapters later.
##
<SNIP>
"I'm on it, pop," Nabiki was already heading for the
phone, even before Soun finished speaking, while Kasumi,
her calm slightly ruffled, had opened the refrigerator and
was pulling out a plastic box containing an assortment of
bottles and small glass vials.
I suddenly picture Akane like the Samuel L. Jackson character
in Unbreakable...
##^)^
She's not unbreakable. Just very . . .sturdy.
##
<SNIP>
"I'm fine, daddy." She shrugged, "I just
overextended a little on a spinning high-kick. No big deal."
I hate those. They're so unpractical...I nearly broke my foot on
doing a high spin kick once. To continue, my sensei sprayed
something on the area that numbed it. I broke it after 2-3 tries.
##There's a reason for this bit. It's rather subtle and
could be considered a minor point, but I won't spoil it.
Oy . . .why not? Akane's 'knee' and associated problems
run throughout the story. This was just to introduce that
and help set-up the alternate time-line.
##
She grinned, an expression that seemed to light the whole
room. "But I really blasted that concrete block. Wham----
boom!" she pulled her hands apart sharply. "Nothing but
dust."
"I don't think it's safe for you to be doing such
strenuous things," Soun said worriedly. His spine firmed as
he came to a sudden decision. "I forbid you to use the
doujou anymore!"
He sounds like my parents.
##Thank you. I wanted Soun to sound
"parent like" in a realistic overprotective
way.
##
The temperature of the room dropped several
degrees and Kasumi stepped back nervously, while Nabiki
swallowed a sudden lump in her throat.
"I'm heir to the Musabetsu kakutou Tendou-ryuu,"
Akane said coldly, looking at her father through narrowed
eyes. "If you want to forbid me the doujou, you have to
defeat me."
Soun's shoulders slumped as his spine jellied. He
_might_ be able to out-point his daughter in technique, but
she'd almost certainly insist on a knock-out, and he couldn't
bring himself to even try. *Assuming it's even possible* a
tiny voice whispered in the back of his mind.
He's really serious on trying to stop her. Sheesh! =P Everyone
seems a little more messed up than usual.
##Well, they are, in a way. OTOH, I spend
about 115,000 words in 30 chapters going
into detail on WHY they are messed up.
There's a reason for everything.
But, if you think THIS is messed up
wait for Kodachi. Or Ukyou. (Heh)
I had fun with Kodachi, but Ukyou?
My masterpiece! If I so say so myself.
Which I just did.
We get to meet Ukyou's father
(In flash back) and find out more
than man was meant to know
about Kuonji Okonomiyaki. (An explanation
on how the 'flour bomb' works is also given in. ^ )^
Did I mention the Enka singers? We have Enka
singers. Singing.
(Unfortunately there's no way to attach an MP3
to the .TXT or you could hear the glory that is Enka.)
I LIKE Enka. ^_*
##
<SNIP>
*****
******
"I can't believe you did this," Ranma muttered,
stalking ahead of his father. "What were you _drinkin'_
anyway?"
"I didn't have a drop," Genma retorted, offended
dignity in every line of his corpulent frame. "except for a
little warm sake. Strictly for medicinal purposes," he
hastened to add. Those few dozen cases of beer didn't
count, he thought. Beer wasn't really _drinking_.
Ok, he's a seriously boozed up Genma. But he doesn't seem
abusive, so I can continue reading... hehe ;-)
##Depends on what you call abusive?
I tried to stick pretty close to things I've read about 'old' martial arts
and Zen training. Which could get pretty brutal. With the assumption
that Genma loves the bottle. And is a thief/conman. I went for
realism here as much as possible. Chapter 28 gives the "complete" story
about the "Cat Fist" for the first time anywhere. ^)^
Well, MY version of it, anyway. In a flashback. Not to worry,
only three of these. Nabiki, Ukyou and Ranma. Ukyou's
got the longest Flashback. ^_^
##
<SNIP>
"Bribes, ya mean."
"Please, son,"Genma affected a pained look. "You
simply _must_ learn a little tact."
lol that's a good one :)
##Do as I say, not as I do.
OTOH, Genma really IS pretty tactful.When
he's sober. Just not very truthful at anytime.
##
<SNIP>
"I dunno pop, it just seems too easy, the way you
say it."
"It's _not_ easy," Genma growled. "You're going to
have to use a little charm, m'boy," Genma warned. "none of
your rough talk, be polite ----"
"Yeah, yeah. Don't be such a nag."
"Don't gulp your food----"
"Jeez pop, all I've got to do is sweet-talk some bitch
an' get her to fork over a little 'love token'." Ranma
Yeesh, he's really got an edge, this version.
##Depends on what's going on. Ranma is
NOT going to be simple or straight forward.
None of the characters are. (Well, Ukyou maybe.
Except for that little . . .well, never mind.)
I was trying to base Ranma, a little, on
children of alcoholic parents. So he's
spent most of his life taking care of Genma.
Ranma is in the position of being Son to Genma
and parent. My big problem was to try to keep
the situation realistic, without being bleak.
I'm pretty sure that I lost some realism in
the attempt to lighten the mood, but hope
I kept the story readable.
##
snorted derisively at the thought. "Then you turn it into cash
an' we split. It's not like we ain't . . .haven't done this
before." He looked over his shoulder at his father. "
Besides, girls love fixin' stuff," his lip curled at the thought,
"learnin' me manners and how to talk right an' stuff just
makes 'em go all mushy."
His speech patterns are a bit much. I'm not sure if he's faking it,
or what. I know Ranma speaks rougher than his father, but the
last sentence is so completely 'not' Ranma, it just doesn't work
for me at all. Maybe just drop the "me" after learnin' ? Or not ;p
##Oooops. I was trying to show Ranma being
sarcastic to Genma. Ranma's done this con so many
times he could do it in his sleep. And he's putting girls
down just a bit by overacting.I guess I need to rewrite to
make that more explicit.
Sometimes I'm too subtle. ^)^
Basically he's saying
that girls are so _stupid_ they can't tell he's pulling
a con, even if he goes wildly overboard.
That's what I was _trying_ to do.
Again, having to explain it to you, shows me
my error. Even better it helps me learn a little
more about self-editing. Hopefully I won't make
that mistake too many more times. ^_*
Watch Ranma's speech. Under stress
or when he's relaxed he should revert to a
rougher style. Normally he uses speech,
like clothes or body language, as a tool
for a con.
##
<SNIP>
"This?" she dumped a final measure of a blood-red
powder into the blender, cracked two eggs and dumped
them, shell and all into the machine, then set it to puree.
"This is my new and _improved_ mega-anti-oxidant super-
protein fruity-fizzy."Soun winced as the abused machine
clattered and bounced across the table, occasionally spitting
nasty mucilage-like bits from under the lid. Happily ignoring
the occasional splat of . . .something . . .hitting the wall
Akane counted down a full minute before she hit the off
button. With a sucking sound she pulled the lid free and
poured a glass full of moss-brown, chunky gelatinous glop.
It settled sullenly into the glass, an occasional bubble
rupturing the crust as dissolved gasses boiled to the surface.
"Do you want some?" She thrust the glass at her father,
who fought an urge to scream like a girl and run.
Oh, God...she's going to drink it!
##Heh, you ain't seen nuthin' yet!
This, btw, is rather a running gag throughout
the story.
##
<SNIP>
"Y . . .your sisters. Do you know where they are?"
Soun asked weakly, watching with disbelief as the level in
the glass rapidly dropped.
This is giving me serious flashbacks of my friend's health drinks.
He used to chug this disgusting stuff that stunk and tasted even
worse than it smelled. Think of chalk mixed with beats and carrots
all in the attractive light brown chocolate flavored mix. UHH!!!!
I still don't know what was in it...some kind of horse food or
something, no joke.
##Why thank you. A better compliment a writer
can never get. JUST the type of atmosphere
I was trying for.
##
<SNIP>
************************************************
Chapter: 2
Xiao li cang dao
(Conceal a dagger in a smile)
How apt that title is now...
##Thank you again. I spent DAYS
trying to match Chinese sayings with
the chapters.
##
<SNIP
Male Ranma meets Akane coming up!!
##Actually, the good stuff doesn't start
until chapter 3. ^)*
##
*****
******
Kasumi tried to repress a guilty little tingle of
pleasure. When father's old friend and son had shown up
out of nowhere, she had been prepared to be polite, nothing
more. Despite her father's apparent hopes, she really
preferred _older_ men. But Ranma was so _yummy_
looking . . .
*choke* Ok...
##HEY! He's young, a martial artist AND
he's spent the last ten years learning to con
people. Meaning, in part, attracting the
opposite sex. And boy can he . . . .errrr
well, more on that later.
##
<SNI>
"Have some of this steamed-custard," Nabiki
offered, a little breathlessly. She'd never _seen_ such a
gorgeous boy in her life. And his careless speech and style
of dress, so different from all the Fuurinkan _boys_, gave
him a slightly dangerous edge that she found a little
exciting.
Uh-oh...I'm getting that all powerful Ranma c0qu3rz the world
ringing bell in my head...
##??? Nah, just normal boy-girl stuff.
Ranma just knows how to charm the ladies.
Like an actor, he gives the audience what
they want.
BTW, I've had complaints that I'm switching
POV too often and too fast in the first
two chapters. (Here, between Kasumi & Nabiki)
What I was _trying_ to do was
Third Person Flexible (3PF), that is, the 'camera' is mounted
on an 'omniscient' observer who 'occasionally' dips
into a characters head to how what they are thinking/feeling.
(Third person omniscient limited as opposed to
Third person omniscient)
I can _see_ all of this happening, and I wrote
it as it happened. And 3PF seemed the best and
most 'natural' way to go to show this scene and
many others.
The critical question:
Is it jarring? Were you jolted out of the
story by this?
I KNOW I have a tendency to switch too rapidly.
You should have seen (maybe better that you didn't)
earlier drafts. I had some really nauseating switchbacks
and hairpin turns before editing. But I seemed to have
missed these. I'd be interested in your opinion.
##
"I _really_ couldn' eat anymore," Ranma protested
with a grin. "Or, at least I shouldn'."
"Ah, Tendou my old friend," Genma sighed from his
place beside the Saotome patriarch, "you are indeed a lucky
man to have two such lovely and accomplished daughters."
Aha!
"Ummm . . . I have _three_ lovely and accomplished
daughters," Soun corrected.
This is rich...is the table going to land on Genma's head instead?
##Chapter 3. Genma get's his. In a manner of speaking.
##
<SNIP>
"Yeah," Nabiki half rose from where she was sitting,
"it doesn't agree with him."
Me thinks Soun replaced the tears with beers!
##More on this later. Especially the part
where Kasumi . . . nope. Better not spoil it.
But, it wouldn't be telling to mention that
Soun also had a problem with the bottle.
Did I mention we meet (In flashback)
his wife (Nabiki, Kasumi, Akane's mother)?
Should give a tiny insight into why
her death hit everyone so hard.
##
Ranma cursed softly to himself. Things had been
going pretty good up to now. This really _was_ a plush
layout, with lots of cash potential and he had the two girls
eating out of his hand. A few weeks, that was all it would
take, and then they could take the money and run for China.
Although Australia would be better for Genma. He didn't
_think_ the old man had any outstanding warrants there,
and he could catch up after he took care of his problem.
Just a few weeks, and the old-man was about to blow it,
because he couldn't stay away from the booze.
So Ranma is mean and all-powerful, but Genma balances
him with weakness. Hehe :P
##Errrr . . .I think I need to put this thing
aside, then come back later for some rewriting.
Mean, yes. All powerful? THAT shouldn't be
there at all.
Ahhhhh . . . I think I see the problem.
HINT: NEVER believe your own press clippings.
(Substitute Ranma for 'your') ^_^
##
<SNIP>
"Friend Tendou!" Genma said over-loudly, "Friend
Tendou! Surely you are not going to let the women of you
house dictate to you." He shot Kasumi a venomous look
that caused her to recoil slightly.
Oh my! Someone was mean to Kasumi! This isn't right!
##Genma doesn't like women.
##
"Now then," Genma relaxed slightly, satisfied that
he'd put the girl in her proper place. "let's honor the spirits
and toast the joining of our houses." He took a generous
pull from his bottle, not wanting to take any chances with
the spirit world himself. "With Ranma's talent and your
doujou, the Musabetsu kakutou Saotome-ryuu will be world
famous in no time." He thrust the cup of sake at Soun.
"It's my doujou." a quiet voice interjected from the
corner, opposite and slightly behind Soun.
Yup, here comes the slam of the table!
##Nope. Nary a 'table' or <shudder> 'mallet'
to be found in this story. Not to worry. Lots
of blood and broken bones. A live birth,
bare-bottom spanking and the Seattle Mariners.
##
<SNIP!!!>
"Heh," Genma reached over and patted her
avuncularly on the shoulder, his hot, alcohol saturated
breath making her nose wrinkle in disgust. "you don't need
to fill your pretty little head with pretend games. My Ranma
will make sure you're taken care of."
"Pretend?"
*wince* Okay, I can see where this is going. Ranma no longer
has the shoe in mouth problem, but Genma is so liquored up that
he does it for Ranma. However, Ranma DESERVES to be smacked
as much as his father this time =)
##Ummmm. . . Going to be kind of hard to do.
Ranma is a good martial artist.
Actually he's better than in the manga/anime
because he's more realistic about the whole
thing. In Ranma's case, the phrase "Never
give a sucker an even break" ALSO means
compound fractures are preferred.
HOWEVER he is NOT all powerful.
He get's surprised a time or two.
Or three.
Akane is better than in manga/anime
as well. But then, so is Kunou . . .oooops.
^)^
Don't try to predict until at least after chapter
eight? Maybe ten. This is VERY alternate universe
and I've REALLY messed things up.
Did I mention the straightjacket?
##
A single word, so cold and hard Ranma was
surprised it didn't draw blood. But the old man was a little
thick when he'd been drinking. It was about time he tried to
shut pop up. The only problem, when Genma was drinking,
the only sure way to close his mouth was with a club. Not
the best way to make a good impression on his future bride,
whoever she might be.
"Pretend," Genma returned a bit testily. Little girls
should be seen and not heard and preferably not seen either.
Err...did you mean this to be in quotes or what? It seems like
you the author just said that little girls should follow this advice...
Perhaps let us know Genma thought this somehow?
##Genma was supposed to be repeating "Pretend" for emphases.
Alas and alack . . . my inability to punctuate. :(
The rest is his unspoken thoughts about the situation.
Some of this garble comes about due to the limitations
of ASCII. If I could use itallic, bold, etc. I _think_
I could avoid some of these problems. ^_*
##
"I've been a martial artist for longer than you've been alive
and a girl can't be a martial arts master." He gave her cane a
pointed glance. "Especially not a cripple."
"Cripple?" Akane jabbed her chopsticks into her
bowl with such force the ceramic cracked.
GO AKANE!!!
##<VBG> JUST the reaction I wanted from readers.
##
Kasumi paled a little at the sight of the slender
pieces of wood, quivering upright. Something she'd seen
only once before, after her mother's funeral.
##Q: did this bit make sense? I was trying to convey
a cultural tid-bit here. Sticking the chopsticks upright in
food is a sign of death. VERY bad form to do this
in family setting like this. As far as I can tell from
my reading, this indicate Genma is already dead
or Akane want's him dead. Want's to make him
dead? At any rate, very bad thing. I'd appreciate
any insight from someone who knows the culture.
And if this bit worked the way I wanted it to.
SIDE NOTE:
A reader who knows the culture, liked the scene with
Akane, but thought Kasumi's bit was unnecessary.
I thought it was needed so readers unfamiliar with
the culture would understand why this was bad.
However thought it was a bit clumsy when I did it.
But, I couldn't come up with a better way to
try to get across this bit of culture.
Q: Do I even need to try? Or is it enough to
leave it at Akane's actions?
OR, do I need to show this, just in a better way?
##
<SNIP>
Ranma resisted an urge to smack the old fraud.
_He'd_ worked and sacrificed? He'd worked and sacrificed
_Ranma_ for ten years, he meant.
True...though this Ranma seems more like he went along with
it then being dragged along...
##Ranma was a child at the start of the whole thing.
What could he do? Abused children almost never leave home.
And Ranma is in the middle of nowhere most of the time.
Did I mention India?
Genma is HOME to Ranma. Maybe a bad home sometimes,
but it's familiar. The only thing he's ever known.
##
<SNIP>
*Damn* Ranma thought admiringly. *the old fart still
has it.* He didn't know why he was so surprised. He'd seen
Genma cuckold a Hong Kong banker while talking him out
of the contents of his safe, and not only get the banker to
carry the loot to the train station, but apologize that his wife
wasn't younger!
I can imagine that.
##Thanks. I did that line just before posting. I never
liked the original, but it took a while for what I wanted
to pop into my head. Glad you liked it.
##
The difficulty was, Genma would usually get greedy,
lazy, drunk or all three, before they made a score. In which
care they ran like hell, a half-step ahead of a date with hot-
tar and goose-feathers.
Yup the Genma is Ranma's crutch, so he can't take over the
world ploy... kinda like Brain's Pinky.
##I warned you not to try to guess until much later. ^_^
Remember, Genma taught Ranma everything Ranma
knows. But Genma didn't teach him _everything_ Genma
knows. ^_^
##
<SNIP>
up in anger, the worms were looking downright appetizing.
Long years on the road, having to deal with Genma's
mistakes, clean up after him and act the peacemaker, enabled
him to control his tongue. Barely.
Ranma has improved in the art of tact. (77)
Ranma has improved in the art of subtlety. (84)
Ranma has improved in the art of being Uber. (100)
##I'm getting a little worried now.
MUCH more tact. And subtle? Oh yes.
He shouldn't be coming across at
that 'uber' if you mean Super-ranma.
If you mean 'other' as in different, then
yes. To a larger degree. But if he's
coming across as Super-Ranma, then
I've not done my job. :(
##
<SNIP>
"I'm too young." she tried again.
"Nonsense," Soun said, shuddering inside at the
thought of his baby, _any_ of his babies, with a . . .a man.
"You are both at the perfect age. You haven't gotten set in
your ways yet".
Gag
##But an argument I've heard used.
##
"I won't marry a man who can't defeat me." She
countered, with absolute conviction.
"What!" From Genma and Ranma, almost in stereo.
Now she's sealed her fate. UberRanma is here to turn her
into one of her own health drinks.
##Ummmm. . . I'm going to have to get
chapter 3 posted REAL soon. Friday at the
latest. Sooner if traffic is light on FFML.
I didn't want to SPAM the list.
Ranma is NOT UBER!
And I didn't mean to write
him that way.
Ranma is fast, strong and
reasonably ruthless or at least
a pragmatist. His technique
is almost flawless, his
instincts superior and his versatility
unmatched by any but two people
(who aren't supposed to be in Japan
so they don't count?)
BUT, while a leopard can kill a honey-badger that
doesn't mean he'll enjoy the experience. ^_^
##
<SNIP>
I really enjoyed the atmosphere of the revision of the original, but
I'm a little concerned for Ranma's ability to handle himself like a
real conman. His father, the brilliant but ultimately flawed tactitian,
and he the suave, masterful martial artist, and together they are the
Incredibly Misogynistic Duo!
##Ohhhh, I LIKE that! And, it's pretty
close to what I was trying to do.
##
Your writing is very good and the tale was very entertaining, so I
invite further chapters (30? yeesh) with open arms. Keep in mind
not to let Ranma's Uberness invelope everything though, okay? :)
##Ohhh, I think I can promise THAT!
Nothing else though.
Did I mention the Snoopy Glue?
##
Ryan Erik
http://www.geocities.com/ryanerik99
\
##Thanks so much for taking the
time to C&C. I really appreciate it.
##
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