Hmm, Came upon this when I should have been working.  Work can wait.^_^

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Michael Noakes [mailto:noakes_m@hotmail.com]
		Sent:	Wednesday, January 09, 2002 6:55 PM
		To:	ffml@anifics.com
		Subject:	[FFML] C&C of newRanma


		Hiya!


			Which doesn't mean, of course, that I like
everything about newRanma.  In 
		fact, there's a fair bit I don't like, or am disturbed by.
That's probably 
		a good thing.  Kudos to the author for crafting a fic I
_want_ to C&C.  I 
		write this in the hope of generating discussion about the
fic.  There 
		doesn't seem to be much story-oriented discussion on the
FFML these days, 
		and that's unfortunate.


		Unfortunate but true.  I could speculate on the reasons
but...  Anyway, you wanted discussion so...

		I have to admit that when I read the story of the website
yesterday, my 
		expectation weren't really high.  My criticisms of a few
chapters ago were 
		at elements that couldn't easily be changed without
undermining a lot of the 
		established story.  I was pleasantly surprised.  There were
still a number 
		of elements that bothered me, but I found the chapter far
superior to the 
		one I C&Ced before.  The writing was as strong as ever, and
more 
		importantly, the story was more consistent within its
established framework. 
		  Akane's revelation made sense (though it wasn't a
surprise), as did 
		Nabiki's; even Ranma's 'Why wasn't it me' was more
sophisticated than I had 
		expected.
			(Having been in a similar emotional situation--well,
without the lesbians 
		and brain clot, of course--it makes perfect sense to me that
displaced 
		attraction can lead to a silly sense of angry betrayal.)

		Been there as well, one time the lesb... well, no one wants
to here about me getting screwed over.  ^_^

		Of course, that being said there were still elements I
disliked, some of 
		them reaching back to my earlier criticism.  Akane remains a
secondary 
		character--hell, Nabiki's new girlfriend has a bigger part
to play in it 
		than she does.  Ranma's still an unbelievably annoying wet
noodle with the 
		instincts of a rutting dog... the story should be called
'newNabiki', 
		because as far as I can tell it's more interested in her
than it is in 
		Ranma.  Soun and Kasumi were interesting presences, though,
and I hope their 
		reactions get further developed in the few remaining
chapters.

		Heh.  'Wet noodle'.  I agree that Ranma's performance has
been less that stellar, less than the 
		hero I'm used to seeing, and love to see.  But, as much as I
want to hit him over the head, 
		I can totally see Ranma acting as he does, from the
framework that has been set up. 

		One of the things I like about this story is it's
perspective.  Ranma is  removed from his comfort
		 zone, that being martial arts, and  introduced to his
libido.  Maybe, Ranma's libido has gone 
		over-the-top, but his actions and reactions towards it have
rung true to me, and in the end, that's 
		what makes a good story.

		I am going to try and explain why Nabiki stepping to the
foreground makes sense and is believable 
		to me.  I don't know if you'll agree but, I'm going to try.
^_^  The story is centered on Ranma, his
		 perceptions, and his views.   The thing he's dealing with
is his new found horniness, for lack of
		a better word.  Nabiki's flirting/interest in him is new, so
he would spend more time thinking about 
		dealing with that aspect.  Something Akane has been
unwilling to do, the kissing incident from a
		 couple chapters ago.  Ranma isn't one to confront his
problems, unless they are place right in 
		front of him, and he has no other choice, especially if
those problems don't concern Martial arts. 
		 So he would be preoccupied with Nabiki, as are most people
when a new interest enters our lives, 
		couple with Akane's somewhat prudish attitude towards him.


		But as interesting as she is, it bothers me that nobody
makes any reference 
		to Nabiki's stunning hypocrisy, and that apparently she's
going to get away 
		with the shocking behaviour she's displayed so far.  Soun
berates her, 
		saying 'you don't know what love is'--because she's only
been with Taiyoko 
		for a few weeks... umm, how about the fact that she openly
betrayed her 
		trust to try and seduce her sister's fiancee at every chance
she had?  Fair 
		enough, that she was interested in Ranma because she thought
he'd gone 
		'girl'; but how about asking his thoughts on the matter,
instead of 
		psychologically torturing him along the way?  I still think
Nabiki's one of 
		the more (probably the most) interesting character in the
story... but she's 
		not in the least bit sympathetic (Soun's little "you've
chosen a hard path" 
		diatribe notwithstanding).  Akane was perfectly justified in
pounding her; 
		she should've thrown in a couple of kicks as well.  The
girlfriend should 
		have joined in, too: _I_ would, if my lover openly stated
her amorous, 
		continuing intentions for another _while laying naked in bed
next to me_!

		KP:  Hmm,  Does it bother you on a personal moral level, or
a story level.  I can understand the personal level, 
		but from the framework of the story, it's fine.  It also
isn't always the job of the story, or author, to punish all 
		wrong doings in any story.  If it were, how many of the
Ranma cast would have already met with death for their
		 transgressions in the manga?  The thing I try and do is
determine if Nabiki's behavior is believable.  I'm not 
		going to say it's excusable or appropriate, but it is
believable from a story perspective and adds quite a bit of
		 interest to the story.  If you look at it from Nabiki's
perspective, maybe you can find some sympathy for her.
		  She may have ruined it by her actions, but that doesn't
mean she's happy.  Have you ever gone to another 
		when you've felt jilted?  Have you ever wanted someone who
was involved with 3 or 4 others.  Maybe her pride
		 was too high, and instead of taking an overt chance at
being with Ranma she held out, hoping he would come to
		 her.  When she felt her actions would be fruitless, she
sought solace in another's arms.  You can say that she was
		 more in the wrong than Ranma, that her actions were
inappropriate and selfish, but so were Ranma's.  Actually the
		 whole cast is made up of characters who are habitually
selfish in both the manga and this story.  Sure she could have
		 done this, or she could have done that.  She could have
talked to Ranma about things, but he has never been one to talk either.

		Sorry for the mini-rant.  



		Ranma remains pretty useless.  He's angry that Nabiki chose
another girl 
		over him--fair enough.  Why isn't he angry that she also
blatantly used him? 

		KP:  Maybe because he realizes he only wanted to use her?


		  Tried to drive a wedge between him and Akane at every
turn, for her own 
		selfish passions and cruel desires?  She makes some scathing
remarks about 
		his harem, and her words score deeper than they should:
Ranma hasn't really 
		_done_ anything about his girls because he's been passive
the entire story, 
		simply swooning and gushing at every inch of exposed skin.

		KP:  Heh.  

		  I kept hoping 
		he'd manage some kind of rebuttal or show some sign of inner
will... but he 
		doesn't.  You'd think his own sexual confusion would lend
some understanding 
		of Akane's similar dilemma, but it doesn't.  The blurb at
the top of the 
		newRanma website says this is a story about Ranma shifting
into adulthood; 
		but when he's given a chance to play 'adult' (ie. Showing
some restraint) in 
		the encounters with Kodachi... he doesn't.  I ranted about
this when I 
		commented before--for a main character, Ranma's pretty
annoying.  By this 
		point in the story, I see him less as a confused young man
discovering his 
		sexuality, than as a fan-service walking genital.  I don't
mean that to come 
		off as flippant as it sounds: it can explain much of his
behavior.  If he's 
		just a walking genital, he's not really accountable for any
of his 
		actions--he's only capable of thinking about one thing.
Unfortunately, that 
		limits his interest as a principle character, in my opinion.

		KP:  I generally agree, I keep hoping that he'll emerge
victorious, conquering his libido and
		 pull his life together, regaining the happy go lucky
strength of character I expect from Ranma.
		  On the other hand, the road to maturity often leads
through valleys of pain and despair.  Chris
		 has shown us a Ranma who has lost his way, and is fighting
who he is.  That blew up this chapter, 
		as was expected from the way things were headed.  

		KP:  As to empathy.  In my opinion, none of the characters
every show empathy to the others,
		 unless some problem is glaring them in the face.  The most
notable case in the manga is when
		 Ranma's mother's first showed up.  But even then, Ranma is
reminded in the scene in Nabiki's
		 room, that he _has_ a mother.  Chris has stayed true to
that point.  Also true empathy is not
		 something that is expected of teen-agers, especially not in
a coming of age piece, like this one. 

		Another problem I have is that 'Adulthood' in newRanma seems
to equate with 
		promiscuousness.  Ranma can't keep either his male or female
bits in his 
		pants.  The girls of his 'harem' are even worse: aside from
Akane, these 
		girls are all willing to spread their legs for him at any
given chance!  
		Ukyou takes the bunny girl route, Nabiki's advances border
on rape, and 
		Kodachi's virginal attempt at seduction doesn't say much for
her character.  
		Only anger-neurotic Akane seems to want to wait until a
'proper' time.  A 
		big part of adulthood, I'd say, as opposed to being a
teenager, is 
		recognizing the consequences of an action and acting on
it--even if it 
		denies the pleasure of the moment.  These people are still
years and years 
		from that.

		KP:  Adulthood is forged from conflict.  Promiscuity is the
device that is driving the conflict 
		in this piece.  Bringing things out into the fore.  As to
the girls of his harem, they have 
		throughout the manga been shown to cater to what they think
Ranma wants.  As you've 
		said, he has been noticeably weak in terms of his sexuality,
it would make sense that 
		they use that.   I think Nabiki's advances are a far cry
from rape, assertive, yes, but 
		I think that term is going too far.    

		KP:  Adulthood is different things to different people.  We
all make mistakes, and
		 becoming an adult will never change that.  Accepting
responsibility for your actions, 
		is more important to adulthood, than just realizing what the
consequences might be. 
		 These people aren't adults yet, but a story where they are
immature teen-agers one
		 chapter, than adults the next, isn't a story, it's a
fairy-tale.   The process of becoming
		 an adult is what important here, also how everyone deals
with what's happened. 
		 If in the next chapter or two everything goes back to
square one, than Chris will have 
		failed to achieve any real growth for his characters.  If on
the other hand, Ranma 
		takes responsibility for his actions, along with Akane,
Nabiki and the others, then 
		the sparks of growth and adulthood have started.


		(I'll admit, teenagers wanting to throw their virginity away
isn't all that 
		difficult a thing to grasp.  It's just the way they go about
it in the 
		fic--and Ranma's easy acceptance of it.  Maybe Nabiki _was_
right... Ranma 
		likes having a harem around 'cus he's sure to get some
action from them.  
		But why doesn't he feel the least bit of anger at their
approaches?  He's 
		emotionally reeling after being kicked out, and the Kunos
kindly take him 
		in; but Kodachi's quick to betray that trust with another
attempt at 
		ensnaring him.  If he's that easy, do they really believe
that a one-night 
		stand is going to catch him?)

		KP;  They're teenagers.  I don't say that to mean that
they'll believe anything,
		 but after the manga and all the other things, any little
piece of him they can 
		get, they'll take.  Look how they attempt to lord their
cooking and or fighting 
		skills over each other, bedding him would give them major
firepower against
		 the others.


		Actually, Akane's reaction is interesting--and a bit odd.
Okay, she's 
		dealing with some deep issues.  She's worried that she's a
lesbian--a 
		pervert, one of the things she hates the most.  I think the
author plays up 
		the anger aspect a bit too much--Akane's just as likely to
react with tears 
		as with anger in tense situations, I think--but it still
makes sense.  She's 
		confused, and she's overheard both Nabiki's and Ranma's
admissions (ie: N: I 
		tried to seduce you because you were a girl; R:I still want
to have sex with 
		you) and she's furious.  But the entirety of her anger seems
focused on 
		Nabiki being openly lesbian.  Okay, maybe it is largely
driven by her own 
		guilt, fears, and maybe a healthy dose of jealousy-why can't
she accept it 
		as easily?  But she doesn't even make mention of Nabiki's
betrayal-her own 
		sister trying to steal Ranma away, regardless of Akane's
feelings in the 
		matter.  Doesn't she care about Ranma in the least anymore?
Her feelings 
		for Ranma have become curiously secondary to her anger at
Nabiki being a 
		lesbian.
		But then, that's a bit of an issue in itself: in recent
chapters, we've seen 
		virtually nothing of what she thinks, so that when Soun
tells her that it 
		might be best if she gives up on the boy, we have no way of
knowing whether 
		she actually cares anymore--worse, we might not have much
interest, since 
		our focus has been kept elsewhere for so long.
			More seriously, though, it seems that Akane is being
punished for being 
		confused about her sexuality.  More to the point, it seems
she's being 
		punished for trying to hold onto her heterosexuality.  Ranma
comments at 
		some point that if Akane had been willing to kiss him as a
girl, he wouldn't 
		have been susceptible to Nabiki's advances.  And Akane's
difficulties seem 
		to be treated with zero sympathy by the author, even though
her problem 
		parallels Ranma's so closely.  This raised a couple of
issues.  First: in 
		that scene, she's the only really sympathetic character,
even despite her 
		ranting and raving; yet she's the one that's treated the
worst.  I mean, 
		she's just been treated really, really horribly by both her
fiance and her 
		sister.  He's already kissed Nabiki in front of her, and now
admits he still 
		wants to screw Nabiki--again right in front of her!  He
should be down on 
		his knees begging for forgiveness, but instead he's whining
that Nabiki 
		chose someone else.  Somehow, she still comes off looking
the villain in 
		that scene.
			Second, and more importantly, it raises a question:
Is Akane being punished 
		for trying to hold on to her heterosexuality?  Sexual
flexibility is a fine 
		thing, and I don't begrudge the homosexuals and bisexuals
their choice in 
		orientation; but does this mean that heterosexuality is a
bad thing?  This 
		has to be answered within the few chapters remaining.  The
author is dealing 
		with some very serious issues here.  Thing is, previous
chapters suggest 
		that sexual limitation are viewed as a bad thing: at most
every turn, every 
		aspect of sexuality has been portrayed in a favourable or
'normal' light, 
		from homosexuality to parental rape dreams.  Is this why
Akane, with her 
		fears of 'abnormal' sexuality, is getting so nastily torn up
by her sister?

		KP:  I generally agree with a lot of the previous few
paragraphs, especially
		 the question about Akane and Kasumi caring more that Nabiki
is a lesbian 
		than Ranma and Nabiki's betrayal.  I should read the
relevant paragraphs 
		to be sure, but my take on Akane, is she would display anger
and physical 
		hostility for the betrayal part.  Crying and fleeing from
Nabiki for Nabiki being
		 a lesbian. Then crying for being found out to be a pervert.
Anger and 
		violence again at Ranma if he called her one.  Did Chris
blend these things
		as I would have, probably not exactly, but I don't have a
problem with the 
		end result.

		KP:   The question of punishment is tricky.  The lines of
right and wrong are
		 always blurry, especially when emotions, relationships, and
sex are involved.
		 I personally have the view that you should do what you're
happy and comfortable
		 with.  Okay, back to Akane and punishment.  You can say
she's being punished 
		for being dishonest with herself, which is not fair, but is
often true in life.  Is it a
		 good or bad thing to try and hang onto being heterosexual,
I'm of the opinion 
		it's probably a bad thing for a person's emotional state.
Akane is also guilty
		 of the same denial, and failure to communicate you cited
Nabiki with earlier.
		  And Ranma is also a big transgressor of keeping his
thoughts and feelings to himself.


		Well, anyway, these criticisms haven't really been presented
in as coherent 
		of a way as I would've liked; I've kind of jumped all over
the place.  
		Again, though these might seem like negative or harsh
criticisms, I don't 
		mean any harm in them--I _do_ like the story, or else I
wouldn't bother 
		writing something of this length.  I don't know if there's
any actually 
		value in what I've written, but I do hope it generates some
discussion... 
		the good fics out there need to be noticed more, in my
opinion.

		KP:  I enjoyed reading your comments.  They hit both the
story itself and story-telling.

		KP: The thing that's not clear from these voluminous
comments is, are you critical of the
		 story because of the fact you don't like the character's as
portrayed or the way in which
		 the story is told.  I guess what I mean is you other than
not having enough of what's going
		 on with Akane, the comments seem to be that you find the
characters actions un-flattering
		 to them or morally wrong, but you like the story.  Are the
character's actions un-believable
		 from a story perspective or are their actions objectionable
on a personally moral level.


		Would you like the story the much, if the characters were
more rationally balanced? 


		-Mike Noakes

		noakes_m@hotmail.com
		http://www.geocities.com/noakes_m


		KPJAM, from the work computer, ignore the disclaimer below,
I have no control over it>_<

		http://kpjam.anifics.com



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