----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Randall" <brian@azurite.org>
To: "Brad Angell" <oddball22@hotmail.com>
Cc: <ffml@anifics.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 10:42 PM
Subject: [FFML] Re: [fanfic][Ranma] The Better End?
Hmm.
Well there's your answer. Between her and the old ghoul, they
could've
done almost anything to people I cared about, and usually did.
Uh... Shampoo, willing to kill?
Yes.
Taro's introduction story comes to mind.
Now, Shamps isn't a bloodthirsty killer or anything, she's just a bit...
feudal. Eg. She'll kill if neccessary, as per deemed by law or honor.
...
Well, that's not entirely accurate. We have not actually _seen_ her
kill anyone, and she often goes to great lengths to find an alternative
for killing. However, she has quite a few times _intended_ to kill
people, even though she later, backed out.
So... we are left with a... question mark? Yes, Shampoo's willing to
kill people, but not neccessarily _able to_. Now about Ranma's perception
of Shampoo...
This does seem unrealistic, given how trusting Ranma has been with the
amazons during the entire series.
She's proven herself incapable nearly every opportunity she's had. I
suppose time might have dulled Ranma's perceptions of what Nerima
was like, but that interpetation strikes me as being more than a
little odd.
Well, I was going to argue this point, except that I kinda ended up
agreeing with it. You're still being quite aggressive, though
Then there was Ucchan, good old Ucchan. Some of my fondest
memories
of my childhood were when we were kids together and fought over
okonomiyaki. I had a good friend, a sparrin' partner, and some good
food. I only found out later that the boy I knew, was a girl, and then
I
felt real bad when I heard how pops left her behind. No one deserves
to
have that happen to them. So when she showed back in Nerima, I
tried ta
be real nice to her and be her friend, but she had changed. I couldn't
spend five minutes with her, without some mention of how she was
the
`cute fiancee', or how perfect a wife she would be for me, etc. She
even
tried to get in my bed! And I thought it was just Shampoo who did
that
stuff. I felt real bad, `cause it seemed I lost the friend I knew.
Fondest memories? The boy had to struggled for minutes before he
remembered her name.
But he _did_ remember afterwards.
Ranma does have a lousy long-term memory, mostly since he's
so focused to living in the present.
Besides, Ukyo is one of the few actual long-term childhood friends Ranma
had, _ever_.
Thought I was married to Akane, right? *Sigh* I wish I was. Not
that I don't care for Ucchan, I do, but, well... *sigh.*
Which 'sigh' do you want to use here? Consistency.
I'd remove both of the *sigh*s
Anyway, I was a little angry at what all the loonies did at the
attempted wedding, and I decided to do somethin' about it. I was
gonna
start with Ucchan, but she disappeared for a week after the wedding,
so
I started with Shampoo instead.
Ranma doesn't hold a grudge for pretty much anything anyone else ever
tried -- exception being Saffron, and maybe Genma, but that only
ever got so serious. Why does he suddenly change here? I've seen the
characterization in a lot of fanfics before, so if that's where your
drawing that aspect from, I suppose it makes sense.
It does seem a bit too assertive of Ranma.
After a month or so, Pops and Tendo-san tried to pair me up with
either Nabiki or Kasumi, but I wouldn't hear of it. My engagement to
Nabiki was not somethin' I wanted ta repeat, and Kasumi was too
nice and
too much like a big sister for me ta want ta marry. Besides, we all
knew
she liked Tofu, and Tofu liked her, and I didn't want ta come between
`em.
There's no evidence in canon to support that. :p
Well, technically that's true. Sure, Tofu either loves Kasumi or
is frightened of her, but we never really see what Kasumi thinks...
And remember, Tofu disappears in volume... what, 15?
The Hiryuu Shoten Ha is the final story Tofu's seen in. Actually, he
doesn't disappear, he's just never shown again... Sorta like, how
Kuno and Ukyo never meet(if I remember correctly)
Picky, picky.
Why isn't Ranma just a little more suspicious?
'cause he's Ranma?
Plot device?
I even snuck by the Tendo dojo late one night, but I didn't see
any
sign of her, except for the addition to the family shrine in the dojo.
It was for Akane. Apparently, the Tendos had held a funeral service
and
given her up for dead.
I thought the shrine was in the house proper? The only time I can
recall it being shown is in one of the Hinako stories, when Soun is
thinking of his wife, but I don't feel like digging through this
volume at this second. :p
picky.
If there's one thing I can't deal with, it's seein' girls cry. So,
I relented, and we moved on. I didn't really press the issue after
that,
altough I tried several times
Eh... that'd only go so far...
Like a previous C&Cer said, it would be better to have a single, well-shown
scene than barely-mentioned multiples.
Oh yeah, we do have a family now, two girls. They're at home,
while
we're roamin' around with the yatai. We take these trips every other
month or so, an' Ucchan calls `em trainin' trips. Not martial arts
trainin', but makin' okonomiyaki. I'm a pretty good chef now.
So who's taking care of the kids?
Takin' the kids with 'em? Ukyo _was_ travelling with her father
when she was six...
But where was I? Oh yeah, we had a few kids, though I was the
one
raisin' `em. Whenever we were at home, Ucchan insisted I should be
the
`mother' of the household, since she was earning the income ta
support
us. I reluctantly backed down. After all, I certainly wasn't earnin' any
money to support our kids, and I wasn't about to steal like my old
man.
That doesn't fit the manga much, since Ukyou's daydreams demonstrate
her ideas of what married life would be like, but whatever.
Well, yes and no. Ukyo has shown willingness to take care of Ranma,
EG. be the provider. However this does contradict on what happened
when Ukyo tried to give up cooking completely - which he hasn't done
here, obviously. Give up cooking that is.
Iffy.
So here I am, flauntin' my scantily-clad body while serving and
entertaining the customers and takin' orders. It's what I've been doin'
for the past several years, except when I'm takin' care of the kids,
and
always as a woman. I haven't been a man for a long time. The only
times
I can remember, are when Ucchan's in a mood to show off her
husband.
I can agree with some of this -- Ukyou _would_ be the type to be
proud of her husband, all things considered. Forcing Ranma to spend
as much time as possible as a girl, OTOH...
I don't see a grounds for it.
Me neither.
Ukyou's shown to be more than good enough to make okonomiyaki
without
some gimmick like that, and while she finds the curse 'interesting'
at most; in the manga, her dreams always include a conspicously male
Ranma.
Mm.
Of course, it might not be intentional. With additional mouths to feed,
perhaps
they were running out of money, and Ukyo, being the superior cook of the
two, took upon herself to provide for the family. As for the waitressing...
well, they aren't in Nerima anymore, where Ranma&gang were regulars,
not to mention all of Ukyo's classmates from school - and later on she
had Konatsu doing the "cute waitress" bit, and she _still_ barely
managed -
granted, though, she was at school the same time, but now she has three
additional mouths to feed.
Hmm... Perhaps Ukyo's jealous/afraid, that if Ranma was working in male
form, he'd attract some unwanted(read:female) attention?
I slip on a black pair of pants and a sleeveless red Chinese shirt.
I've carried this particular outfit with me everywhere, but it just now
dawns on me how long it's been since I've worn it. The disturbing
thing
is, it fits perfectly. I mean, it should be tight or something, because
I've supposed to have grown. I've noticed that several times in the
past
10 years. On the rare opportunities I become male, I still appear as I
did when I was seventeen.
The underlying implication here is that Ranma's been spending the
majority of his time since he was seventeen (before, according to
the history of this fic he married Ukyou) and that doesn't make a
whole lot of sense.
Weell...
That's... true.
I mean, certainly, when travelling, Ranma would have to spend great
lengths
of time as a girl, being a water magnet, and hot water _not_ being so
easily
available. Also, there may be circumstances which have forced him to be
in
a girl-form lot of the time...
Then again, maybe... I haven't changed greatly from when I was
seventeen, except from what I've gained due to exercise, and Ranma
already was incredibly fit. Also, as shown later, if he has grown some (to
a physical body
around, say, 23), and lost some muscle mass...
I shrug. "I fell in the spring of drowned _young_ girl, remember? I
think that means I don't age while female." And I've been female a
lot
in the past ten years or so. But I don't say that.
There you have it.
'course, he'd probably spend half the time as a girl anyway. Besides, cooks
need water, no? Just washing hands with cold water might be enough to
trigger the change---I'm not sure, but too lazy to check the Manga right
now.
However, it's unlikely to happen now. After all, I've got the kids
to take care of and the restaurant to help run. Where am I going to
find
the time to do some serious training?
Don't need to. Just stay a girl and outlive them all. Then you win by
default!
Yeah!
Heh.
And for that matter, can I even get those skills back? I wanted to
be the best, so where did I go wrong? Are all the good fights with
good
friends behind me now? Do I really have to give all that up? Is there
any way for me to happy with the way my life is now?
Not as written, no...
Untrue. See->children
I'd rather say, not when clinging to past.
I am no longer what I was, so just who am I now? This question
scares me the most, because I don't know anymore.
E.g. need to solve this.
My name is Ranma Saotome, and I... I used to be a martial
artist...
The ending is strong, but the fic itself is weak.
I disagree. The fic is far from perfect, but it's quite good IMO.
Of course, definitions of 'weak' may vary.
"Where did this come from? What in the world were you thinking?"
I can guess, but at this point, I don't really care.
Not caring is one of the most horrible things in the world.
I do that quite a lot, I should know :p
Not care, that is.
Well, since your name isn't Takahashi, I'd put a lot more stress on
the 'might'. Your story breaks canon, and its own continuity.
Well, I agree. But probably for different reasons.
"Why didn't Ukyo show much interest in a dojo or martial arts? She's
a
martial artist too!"
The fact that you have to defend yourself this strongly speaks poorly
for your story.
Well, that's rude, however true.
Being, the fic should speak for itself.
That works, I suppose, but I'd think she would be perfectly willing
to teach Ranma the art were he to ask.
That's not the point - Ranma doesn't care that much about Okonomiyaki-
style
- he wanted to advance his own skills, in his own style.
However, the (implied) fact that Ukyo _never_ allowed Ranma to
stop&check
and-or spend time at dojos is, well, weird.
Oh, and I really do like Ukyo. She does have her good moments,
moreso
than Kodachi or Shampoo. She does tend to care about others when
Ranma
is not in the picture, but once Ranma enters, most other concerns go
out
the window.
Just like it does for every other character in the anime.
I thougt we were talking about the manga?
:p
Not really. I have a problem with it, and it's this:
First off, and this is the first time I've ever said this, and hope
it's to be the last:
It wasn't a very good story. It was only a thinly veiled excuse to
bash. http://www.theaskguys.com/%7Epics/flamebait.jpg
I disagree. But, it's kinda complex.
It starts out trying to be canon, but hits a bump on the tracks and
falls deep into... the Alternative Zone. Ukyo is obviously a parasitic
pod person, created by Them to take down Ranma Saotome, the
last obstacle between Them and Their goal to turn the entire humanity
into cheese!
Which is kinda sad, because I agree with the basic concept of this story,
which is that Ranma probably wouldn't be happy with Ukyo, because
their goals conflict too much.
This fic... I think it would be better, if you really really tried to make
things work with them, e.g. Ukyo being completely without blame
(see:Saint Ukyo), etc... and things _still_ wouldn't work out.
As it is, the concept is OK, and the first person view sort-of works,
but the plot needs work(E.G. the Akane-disappearing etc.)
If you would do this into a continuing series, i'd make this alot darker,
(See: Ukyo Can Cook (the fic) and Ill Met By Starlight)
You _still could have a happy ending, getting there would just be more
interesting.
Of course, another interesting concept would be where Ranma and Ukyo
a) End up together
b) Still have completely opposite goals and
c) work things out and live happily ever after
Secondly, you said that this was a parody. Where's the funny?
http://www.theaskguys.com/%7Epics/comedypolice.jpg
#Define Fic Tragedy
Finally, given your comments on the reduction of the Bitter End (and
that thread was banned) you've already made your position on bashing
Ukyou clear.
Good thing I didn't see them, or I might be as biased against this fic as
you are.
And I'm free to ignore you, too. Isn't freedom a beautiful thing?
Ahh... indeed.
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