tor_onsen wrote:
Right. And just IMO, it's a pretty good start. Coincidentally, this is my first attempt at posting C&C to the FFML. Here's hoping I've managed to troubleshoot any line wrapping or formatting problems. My sincere apologies to one and all if I haven't.
To JP, I'd like to say that I'm sorry that this C&C is not as timely as I would have liked it to have been. The comments presented here are just my opinions. They are offered as food for thought, and while I hope you find them helpful, you can use them or ignore them at your discretion. You are the ultimate arbiter of their value.
Thanks for the response. I haven't had time yet to go through your C&C line by line, but here are a few early thoughts...
Suggestion: "then" instead of "now" to avoid what seems to be a shift in tense.
Yes, I know that tense is a major problem here. Drat. I've done some rewriting,
some dealing with this, some with the run-on sentence problem. I did send this
revision to r.a.a.c. and put it up on my website, but I see there is still work to do. A lot of work.
"It is of no use, Saotome, this is your home
from now on. It's time you got used to the
fact. It's your own fault, you just couldn't
leave well enough alone, could you?
You have a tendency to write run-on sentences.
Yep, this is a problem I had long ago when I tried to write. And now it rears up it's ugly head again. Arrrghhhh! I definately have to work on that.
"Grr, why do we have to learn such a weird
language anyways. English is just so, so
confusing!
anyways? English is just so... so confusing!
Why can't it be easy, like Japanese?"
Nabiki had to chuckle to herself on that,
"Akane, I'm sure Japanese is just as confusing
for English speaking people as English is for
us. Why do you think so few of them can speak
Japanese, even just a little?"
Uh... because we're raised with delusions of cultural superiority, perhaps? :-)
Perhaps. :-).
Oh, what the folks inside the house must be thinking now! Seriously, if you wanted to, you could get some major double entendre going here. For example:
"I... I know it's kind'a small," Ranma said, his voice catching. "There's nothin' fancy about it either, but at least it oughtta' fit. If... if you want it, I mean..."
"I do want it, Ranma," Akane, replied. Through the television speaker, her voice sounded small and breathless. "It... it fits perfectly. Oh... oh, Ranma!"
Nabiki *really* began to regret the absence of a camera.
"They'retooyoungthey'retooyoungthey'retooyoung," Kasumi repeated like a mantra as she blushed profusely.
"Oh, my son is *so* manly," exclaimed Nodoka, who had slipped into the story unnoticed. "And so modest, too."
Bwa - hah hah!!!!! Good stuff. I don't think it really fits the tone of the story, but I like it!
"Care for me? Akane, you really care for me?"
You might want to rephrase Ranma's line so that it doesn't sound quite so Sally Field-ish. :-)
Heh, heh, odd I didn't notice that. Although the thought of Ranma as a flying nun..oh, nevermind! ;-)
I know I've said some mean things to you, but I
never really meant them. You're not uncute.
You're not in the least bit uncute.
"So, what are you saying, Ranma? That you've been LYING to me since the day we met?"
Seriously, Ranma's standard for cuteness seems to be as much about attitude and behavior as it is about appearance. There are plenty of occasions when he has called Akane uncute and *meant* it.
Agreed, but for Ranma to say, "I've said some really mean things to you, and I've only meant them part of the time", is a mallet waiting to happen.
of the cookin'. Ya know, after working with Mom
on cooking, it's kinda fun, I kinda enjoy it.
It may not be 'manly' to admit, but ya,
"Ya?" Oh, no! Ranma's been possessed by the Swedish Chef! Hide all the knives, and for Heaven's sake, keep P-chan out of sight!
"Akane, in celebration of our real engagement, I've prepared some stir fry pork for you."
I think "yeah" would work better here.
Ya, err, yeah, it would.
"But Ranma, I thought you always said that
girls are stupid and weak? How can I be
strong?"
Okay, my memory might be getting faulty in my old age, but when has Ranma ever said anything like this outside of fanfiction? Sure, he has specifically insulted Akane often enough, but usually in terms that imply strength or masculinity; "Macho chick," "Built like a gorilla," "Slow," "Waistless and flat chested." I honestly can't think of an in canon instance where he's said that girls in general are either stupid or weak.
Oh, and to any and all reading this, if you want to respond on this sort of character/canon issue, please do so privately. I wouldn't mind hearing from you, but let's not spam up the ML.
"Err, sorry 'bout sayin' that as much as I did.
It's just that, well, ya know how Pop is, and
all the stuff he's been tellin' me and teachin'
me over the years. I mean, yeah, for a long
time I believed that crap, 'til I came here,
and I saw just how strong and smart girls can
be. The curse probably helped with that too.
I've always known Pop was kinda stupid, I just
didn't realize how much so till I came here."
Genma is a hard man to defend. Over the course of the manga he does and says some pretty horrible things, but I don't ever remember him teaching Ranma that all girls are stupid and weak. IMO, you may be proceeding from assumptions more founded on other fanfiction than they are on the manga or anime characterizations
While you are right in that I don't recall him saying those actual words, Genma's feelings on the opposite sex come across fairly clear. And it seems that early on, Ranma does pick up some of these ideas. But not all. And his curse, plus being around the other girls, helps him see over time how stupid his fathers views are. At least, that's how I read it.
The four waited there for a few minutes, eager
to confront the two once they returned from the
roof. After what seemed like an eternity, they
saw Ranma and Akane return to the front yard,
each transfixed into the other one's eyes, each
carrying a look of pure joy on their faces.
But such happiness was not to last. So intent were they on gazing into each others eyes that they walked directly into the koi pond. Ranma went female. Akane nearly drowned. Soun cried. Nabiki collected on the wagers. The moment was lost.
But that's another story....
"That's enough out of you! Being around these
girls have warped you, Ranma, I'm going to take
you on a long training trip, and maybe this
time I'll find some girl who's not so
headstrong to engage you to. A man among men
needs a proper Japanese wife, not one of these
modern girls, who seem to act more like a boy
than my own son!"
I know that this is the moment your story hinges on. This is the line that you need Genma to cross that results in his imprisonment. Would Genma actually do this, though? Getting Ranma and Akane hitched is the key element of his and Soun's Master Plan. Certainly, Genma is a man who is perfectly capable of forgetting his long range goals in the heat of the moment or in the face of temptation. The lure of French cooking caused him to briefly consider marrying Ranma to the very male Piccolette Chardin, for Pete's sake! The thing to remember about Genma is that while he is prone to getting sidetracked, he's only a beating away from regaining perspective. IMO, his worst decisions (the situation with Ukyo, her father and the yatai comes immediately to mind) have been made on occasions when there was no one present capable of pummeling some sense into him. That certainly isn't the case here.
Bringing up Ukyo, remember (and I'm going by anime canon here, I haven't read the manga version of this) that when confronted about the engagement while in front of Ranma, Akane, Ukyo and some schoolmates, Genma immediately passed the buck off to Ranma. He did not back down even when threatened by Ranma. Genma, to me, has a tendancy to lose perspective when he is called out in front of people. And right now, Ranma put him down in front of the Tendos. I doubt he would have reacted that strongly had Ranma said those things in private.
As far as pummeling sense into him, remember Soun stops the conversation before any pummeling can occur (and you figure Akane's real close). He also does not confide with anyone other than Mousse about his intentions. Had he mentioned this to Nabiki (who might have sold Genma to the highest bidder to start with) or Akane, it would have happened differentely. But Soun sees Genma differentely that everyone else does. He is probably the only character how doesn't see Genma as the fool he really is. He actually takes Genma's threat seriously.
Akane jumped in between Genma and Ranma, "You
are NOT taking him anywhere! After all this
time, we've finally managed to talk, I mean
really talk to each other,
Well, sort of. The conversation was pretty one sided. Ranma says lots and has a relatively easy time saying it, especially considering that this is Ranma we're talking about. Ranma is the Grand Master of the Foot-in-Mouth technique, and many of the things that he says that set Akane off were never intended to be hurtful. The comment he makes about her not being a "normal girl" like Nabiki at the start of the "Nabiki is Ranma's Fiancee" story arc is one example. I think it would be entertaining in this situation to have Ranma screw up and unintentionally say the wrong words a couple of times while Akane struggles to keep control of her temper, because she's pretty sure that he's at least trying to get to the good stuff.
And while we're on the subject of Akane, I think we simply need to hear more from her in this conversation. Ranma is apologizing left and right, and he should, but he gets nothing returned in kind from Akane. Granted, Ranma doesn't have a history of accepting apologies gracefully. In fact, he's been known to gloat. Nevertheless, Akane has said and done many things over the course of the series, lots of them intentional, that were hurtful to Ranma. I really think that in this situation she would take her chances and be at least as apologetic as Ranma is. As things stand, she seems uncharacteristically passive.
One, we did not hear the whole conversation. Nabiki turned off the audio at a certain point, and they did mention talking about dealing with the other girls, which was NOT heard.
Two, as to the reason I had Ranma monopolize the conversation we heard. He was hesitant to start this conversation, in part due to awkwardness, in part because he knew this was an important conversation, and he wanted to be careful NOT to say anything wrong. Once he gave the ring to Akane, and saw how she truly felt about it, well, it was like a champagne cork under pressure. He was finally able to say all the things he had been wanting to say for some time. Akane was quiet because she wanted to HEAR all of this. In a way, they both matured a little, Ranma learned how to say what he meant, Akane learned when to keep quiet. As far as Akane apologizing, well, perhaps that happened after Ranma's speech. Does that really need to be heard in this story. Maybe, maybe not.
"I understand, son. If this is what the both of
you want, you have my support.
Is this the same man who once participated in knocking his youngest daughter unconscious and stuffing her into a wedding kimono? The same man who "leveraged" Akane into consenting to marry while still no older than seventeen by dangling the promise of a cure for Ranma's curse?
"Leveraging" Akane using a hope for Ranma's cure wouldn't work unless Akane had real feelings for Ranma. Soun, as foolish as he is, understands that. I think his main concern was to get the two to deal with each other before one of the other suitors messed things up. Now that they've come to an understanding with each other, and are ready to deal with the others head on, he feels comfortable that they will marry someday.
"My daughters mean everything to me, Saotome,
everything. After their mother died, I vowed
that I would let nothing or nobody hurt them.
They mean more to me than my dojo, more than my
pride, more than my friend.
This is the same man who provides free room and board to an ancient pervert who frequently sexually harasses the youngest of his three teenaged daughters? I guess if Genma were as dangerous and scary as ol' Happosai this would be a very different story.
I always thought that if Happosai went a step further than glomping, then Soun would have his old master packing real quick. One thing about Soun, he is extremely overprotective, most of the time, concerning his daughters. And when Kirin kidnapped Akane, he even went into full Demon Head mode to get Happosai and Genma to join the rescue party..
"This zoo, Saotome, is far from Nerima. Chances
of anyone you know finding you by chance are
slim. And would they even recognize you if they
did come here? No, you won't get any help from
that front.
Oh, I don't know about that. Ryoga has been known to show up in the damnedest places. :-)
Heck, Ryoga can't even recognize Ranma in disguise, he's going to be able to tell one panda from another. :-)
But yet, do I have myself to blame? Was it my
own foolishness that got me in this mess? Ranma
has been blaming me for so much for so long,
could I really be at fault?
Nah.
I look out over my prison, this zoo. The grass
in my exhibit, the panda exhibit is green and
lush. I can feel the mist coming off the pond,
as a small waterfall splashes into it. For a
prison, this is rather nice. I get fed on a
regular basis, I can just lounge around and do
nothing most of the day, and the people who
come to watch me are happy. No money woes, no
stress, perhaps, perhaps this won't be such a
bad life after all.
Hey, it could be worse.
I like these last few paragraphs, aside from the continuing problem with run-ons and tense shifts. These, I think, are very much in-character for Genma. The last sentence is a good "famous last words" set-up for the punch line.
brought the panda gave us? Didn't he say it
should help in any breeding attempts? What did
he call it again?"
"Passion spice, I think. Never heard of the
stuff myself, but considering how few pandas
there are in the world, and how they often seem
reluctant to breed, I'm willing to give it a
shot."
And the hoariest cliche in Ranma fanfiction rears it's head again! As a punch line, though, it's not too bad at all. I come away from it, however, thinking much less of Soun as a human being
Yep, it's a fanfic cliche all right, but usually it's used in a plot again Ranma, not Genma. I was a little concerned about using it though. I guess I could say it was Mousse who gave them the spice, not Soun.
If you've waded through all this, thanks. I hope you didn't come away from this thinking that I didn't enjoy the story. In fact, I did enjoy it, even though I don't necessarily agree with it in matters of canon and characterization.
Thanks. Don't worry, I took the C & C as it was meant.
The relationship between Genma and Soun is one of the elements of "Ranma 1/2" that seems to be under explored in fanfiction. I like your central premise that there is a line that Genma could cross with Soun that could lead to Soun taking these rather extreme measures against his old friend. I don't believe, however, that Ranma's overheard statements were provocative enough to elicit such extreme anger in the Genma that we are familiar with from either the manga or the anime, or that the Tendos couldn't resolve the situation by playing a quick round of "Pound the Panda."
This was one the things that got me to write this story. I've read quite a few stories where various characters (usually Ranma) talked about selling Genma to a zoo. I thought about a situation where it would come to pass. And of course, I asked myself who the last person (besides Kasumi, of course) would be to do so. Thinking of Soun that way made me look at the way Soun was written in most fanfics. Usually he is nothing more than a shadow of Genma, who cries a lot instead of eats a lot. Even though they were tied together in many ways, I've always seen them differently. I thought this story would be an interesting way of dealing with that.
In the comments I've made on tense in the narration, I opted to place things in the past tense since that was what you established in your first sentence. The narration could be told in the present tense if you feel that has greater impact, but whichever you use, you need to be consistent with it throughout.
You are absolutely right. I wanted to use present tense during the narration, and totally messed it up in the opening line. Ouch.
"Run-on sentences is obstacle to readers' enjoyment of story," said Shampoo. "Obstacles is for killing!"
Run-on sentences bad. Richard Basehart good. (Sorry, MST reference for some of you out there).
JP Buckner