In the interest of clarity, I've taken the liberty of merging messages
from Gary Kleppe and Brian Payne in this response...
Vincent Seifert <seifertv@csus.edu> wrote:
Ranma and the Heart of the Phoenix
Whew, long chapter. :) I'll try not to repeat anything Phil's already pointed
out.
Having approached this problem from both sides (writer and C&Cer), I
think there's something to be said for just going ahead and repeating.
First, it's probably easier on the C&Cer not to keep track of what
others have said; second, while I consider all serious comments (and
many flippant comments :) carefully, a comment that is repeated by
another critic gains additional weight.
Daylight filtered down into the bamboo grove, turning the
trail Ranma trotted along into a tunnel under the sea, green
shade dappled with brilliant flecks that rippled and danced. The
Nice WUE-esque imagery here...
A well-chosen adjective, to be sure. :)
maybe a bit much for a single sentence, though.
Sorry... there are longer ones ahead. :)
Finishing his lunch, he drank from a canteen before
preparing to resume his journey. He nodded thanks to the stone
that had served him as a bench, and only then noticed the
characters carved on its side. "'Phoenix'?" he muttered,
squatting to trace one with his fingers. The other was well-
known to him; the Joketsuzoku used it to mean "forbidden" or
"authorized personnel only", and he often got in trouble for
ignoring it.
RANMA: Let's see, it says: Au- thor... auth - or - ized... authorized person!
Person authorized. I'm a person, so that means I'm authorized. I can go in
there!
RANMA: Sign? What sign? :)
"Very well, Lady Kiima," they said in unison. They marched
off the terrace, talons clicking on the pavement: the one dark-
skinned, black-haired and black-feathered, the other sporting
slightly outrageous greenish hair and strikingly barred wings,
both clad in the one-shouldered chitons of their office but in
colors of their own choice. Kiima watched them go, wishing she
were going with them, then transferred her gaze back to Helubor.
"It's been a week," Helubor said in tones of restrained
impatience. "Have you decided on your answer to my proposal?"
KIMA: Not yet. I'm still trying to choose between "get bent" and "not even if
you were the last creature on Earth."
HELU: Well, if you really need more time... HEY!
Well, that's clearly what she's thinking, but Kiima has more
self-control than most Ranma characters. :)
"As you say... but nevertheless, I have made my decision,"
Kiima said coolly. The look in her blue eyes was even colder
than her voice, but Helubor appeared not to notice.
"If you persist in your folly, you'll regret it," he vowed.
"I give you one final chance to change your mind."
KIMA: No!
HELUBOR: Okay, one more chance. What the heck.
KIMA: Not a chance!
HELUBOR: All right, I'm feeling generous. Just one more.
KIMA: Go away!
HELUBOR: Just ONE more. But this is really the last one!
You've been watching Python again, haven't you? :)
"Thrice-accursed aristocratic gumboil," Kiima muttered,
KUNO: Yes?
KIMA: Sorry, I was talking to someone else.
Kodachi: My, what big ears you have, dear brother.
"If you mean mate and bear children--" Fanael nodded-- "not
if I have to do it with Helubor."
Punctuation seems rather odd here. Suggest:
and bear children," Fanael said, nodding, "not
See way way below...
"But really, who else is there?"
KIMA: Well, there's that Ranma Saotome guy. I hear half the female population of
Asia is already married to him. What would be one more? :)
Ranma: <facepalm>
Kiima flinched; to bring up the decline of the numbers of
the Phoenix folk in polite conversation was simply not done.
"Fanael, I hope you're not going to tell me to do my duty to our
people. I do my duty, every day."
FANEAL: I know. Who do you think has to clean it up?
Kiima: *sigh* Haven't you learned to delegate yet?
"The intruder's on the upper granary level!" Koruma shouted
from the doorway ahead of her.
"Just one?" Kiima queried in amazement, jogging after him.
"How'd he get so far? Were the guards asleep?!"
MASARA: Zzzzzzz... huh? Um... sleeping? No way! I was, um... working out battle
strategies!
Koruma: We've almost conquered the Land of Nod!
Ranma got up and moved around a little, inspecting his new
home, and nodded grudging approval. As cells went, it was pretty
good: clean, dry, well-ventilated but not drafty, not roomy but
definitely not cramped; the stalactites were well clear of his
head, the mat was free of vermin, the water bucket was clean, and
the slops bucket had a lid. "If it wasn't for the lock, they
Suggest: slop bucket (that's the way I've always heard it)
My dictionary agrees with you. Easily fixed... thanks!
could charge rent," he said to himself. "Hope room service
measures up."
GUARDS: You do like birdseed, right?
Ranma: Nah, too much fiber.
The prisoner was sitting crosslegged on his mat with one
elbow on his knee and his chin resting on his hand when Kiima and
Fanael stopped opposite his cell. He uncoiled quickly to his
feet and came up to the grill; the flash of recognition in his
grille (I think you mean)
I think so too. Thanks.
RANMA: Can you make okonomiyaki on this thing?
Ukyou: No, silly, the batter falls through. Ask them for a griddle.
Ranma smiled suddenly. He checked the next cell in the
direction opposite the way his visitors came; having verified
that it also had a sleeping mat and buckets, he took hold of the
bent bars and carefully bent them back straight. Then he entered
his new cell by the same method, sat back, and waited for the fun
to start.
Heh heh.
A tip o' the hat to Ghek the Kaldane seems called for here. :)
The detachment straggled out, punctuated by accusations from
Koruma and Masara and protests from the first two guards. Ranma
waited for things to settle down, managed to stay put through the
next inspection-- by four guards-- and then went back to his
original cell, bending the bars straight behind him. With the
satisfaction of an afternoon well spent, he unrolled his mat and
stretched out for a nap.
Hm. I really like this routine of his, and it's very much in character for
Ranma, but I think you may be overplaying the delivery of it. Probably once per
incident is enough for us to see it; we don't need to see Ranma planning it
*and* see the guards falling for it.
I'm not sure what you mean... the first one? Necessary setup, I thought;
otherwise there might be reader confusion. We see the guards falling for
the second one, we see him planning and executing the third one but the
falling-for is implied... I don't see what I can cut without adverse
effects.
"It's about the prisoner," Masara said unhappily.
"He's some kind of sorcerer," Koruma chimed in.
"Or maybe a, a fakir or something. Anyway, he's freaking
Suggest: maybe a-- a fakir
OK.
RANMA: I ain't no faker! I really am this good!
Kiima, admiringly: I'll vouch for THAT.
The curtain slid open, revealing an immense high-backed
throne fully five meters from floor to phoenix-decorated crest.
On its seat was a man of the winged folk clad in raiment of white
and red, golden-haired and red-eyed. His face was fair in the
sharp-featured way of the Phoenix Mountain nobles; his expression
was impassive, apparently taking no note of Ranma's unwillingness
to abase himself before him. Light spilled from him to
illuminate the hall, flashing from ornaments, glowing on
flowering plants, picking out the clothing and plumage of the
populace.
RANMA: You're Saffron? For some reason, I expected you to look like one of those
statues you find outside a restaurant.
SAFFRON: Thank you, but I've gone through that phase.
Ranma: Gee, your metamorphosis was even weirder than I thought...
"Captain Kiima," Saffron said, raising his right hand.
Kiima rose and walked briskly to the other side of the throne,
turning with precision to stand facing the hall. She saw that
Ranma was still standing and frowned, but Saffron was already
speaking. "Chancellor Korianda, read the charges," he said to
the man standing by the throne.
KORIANDA: *ahem* Three nights bed and breakfast at four hundred yuan each, plus
seven hundred yuan for damages. Payable by certified check or money order
*before* the first of the month, thankyewverymuch.
Ranma: I'll have the money for you tomorrow. Uh, where was your treasury
again?
Korianda produced a scroll from his sleeve and unrolled it.
"In this ninth year of Saffron's current reign, in the afternoon
two days past, an intruder entered Phoenix Mountain. He disabled
a score and thirteen of the company of Lord Saffron's guard,
including Masara, lieutenant of the guard, before being captured
by Captain Kiima and imprisoned," he read. He adjusted the
scroll and looked at Ranma. "Captain Kiima reports that the
intruder's name is Ranma and that he comes from the island
country of Japan. He is not known to us, nor did he give any
reason for disturbing our peace. Clearly this outsider is a
threat to our people and must be dealt with accordingly."
"Am not," Ranma muttered.
SAFFRON: Out of order! The prosecution speaks first.
PROSECUTOR: Are too! Are too! Nyaaaaaaah!
Ranma: Jeez, they must have eaten magic mushrooms that affect your
MENTAL age.
It had to be a bedroom. No room could have a bed four
meters square and NOT be a bedroom. The squared-off knotwork
RANMA: Well, has it got a bed? Then it's a bedroom, pretty much. Duhh.
Ranma: I've seen enough of them to know.
"Maybe," Kiima said, but there wasn't much hope in her
voice. She didn't believe Saffron was a god on earth, as some
Shouldn't Earth be capitalized (since you mean the planet, rather than soil)?
Oops. Yes.
did, nor did she believe he was infallible, but her respect for
him as Lord of Phoenix Mountain was a tall citadel with deep
foundations. Letting Ranma escape had been her failure, and
The metaphor here seems a little odd and jarring by itself. I think you either
need to play it up a bit more, or get rid of it. (It doesn't help that there
literally *is* such a citadel in the story.)
<Vince stares at his poetic license: it has "REVOKED" stamped on it in
big red letters> Waaah!
So far, it's sort of a Doctor Who plot. Ranma wanders into something, and gets
mixed up in someone else's schemes.
Yup. Or Burroughs, or Howard, or even Dumas... I try to steal from the best. :)
Masara and Koruma did not appear to be gladdened by the
praise; they hung their heads even further. "He sent us to kick
you out," Koruma mumbled. "We're supposed to make sure that
you're gone by sundown. But we wanted to make sure you got a
good start, since you can't fly at night any more than we can, so
we came to remind you...."
I think they can fly at night, actually. They did in vol. 37. Though maybe they
need those take-out restaurant lantern thingies to do it.
They stole lanterns one time, and they had owls guide them one time, and
one time they were stuck on top of a chimney because they couldn't fly
at night... evidently it's a problem for them, even though there are
limited solutions for it.
"You're still going to be a standout, though," Ranma
observed. "Nyanniichuan won't change your hair color or your
height, or your looks."
Suggest: 'height, or how good lookin' you are."' (As written, Ranma's comment
might be taken as 'the way you look,' in which case Kima's reaction that follows
isn't really appropriate.) I expect you expect me to say something about the
hair color thing here, but I think it stands on its own. :)
Um... men have that reaction, yes, but in my experience if you say "your
looks" to a woman, she'll interpret it as "fairness of face and figure".
If I get negative feedback on this from a female reader, though, I'll
reconsider. :)
Ranma held his breath; this was the tricky part. The trial
by combat was an ancient law among the Phoenix, little-used
because of the potential for abuse by the strong to oppress the
weak, and appeals to it had to be approved by Saffron himself.
If he denied it, at least Kiima's banishment had been rescinded.
If he approved it, she had a chance to revenge herself on her
enemy and perhaps even win her office back.
Tenses here don't quite seem right. Suggest:
If he were to deny it, at least Kiima's banishment would be rescinded. (etc.)
hmm... tense may be correct, but my case may be off. You're using
subjunctive, I think, which fits but seems too elaborate. I'll review
this.
Ranma held up his bound hands as Taragon rolled out of the
bushes and raised the dagger again. "Hey! Look at the coward!"
he yelled. "He's trying to kill a guy with his hands tied!"
TARAGON: Ha! I could kill Ranma with both hands tied behind my back!
RANMA: What if both my hands *aren't* tied behind your back?
TARAGON: *sweatdrop*
Vince: Er-- It's not MY mistake, it's RANMA'S! Yeah! That's the ticket!
Ranma: Say what?
Vince: *sweatdrop*
Saffron turned to gaze at Ranma, and Ranma was struck by the
deep, ancient weariness in his eyes. Saffron seemed to read his
reaction. "Granted. Remove his bonds."
NABIKI: Too late, Saffron-chan. I cashed those all in *years* ago.
Ranma: Why are all these women into either bondage or discipline?
Akane <waving riding crop>: Well, if you wouldn't keep misbehaving, then
you wouldn't need to be punished!
Kasumi <holding rope>: And if you wouldn't keep running off, I wouldn't
have to tie you up!
Ranma: *sweatdrop*
Kiima closed the door behind them and turned to survey her
quarters, piqued into trying to see them as a stranger might...
and failing. Ghosts from her past haunted them: her father,
strong and stern to his last day; her mother, tall and elegant,
beautiful and kind; the brothers and sisters she'd hoped for but
never had. That chair over by the fireplace had been her
father's, and she'd no more been willing to dispose of it than
she had his sword.
RANMA: What's that *on* the chair? [holds nose] Ew, stinkburger!
KIMA: Oh. That's my father's corpse. I couldn't bear to dispose of it either,
you see....
Vince: *sigh*
Kiima laughed, picked up the bundle she'd assembled, and
went into the bath. She was used to cold-water baths, having
picked up the habit from her father, who claimed it hardened the
body.
From what I understand, cold water baths are pretty much the norm in China. Of
course, this *is* the future....
Kiima's a noble; she can have a hot-water bath by ordering the servants
to heat water for one, but it takes a couple of hours.
"It's been a while, has it?"
"There were a few when I was younger, but they all ended up
mated to other women, somehow."
"Their loss, my gain. Well... is there a bed around here
somewhere?"
This aspect of Ranma's character is very different from the way he acted towards
women during his high school days. It's kind of hard to judge how believable the
transition works, given that there's a lot of previous story yet to be written,
but from what's revealed in the ending scenes and in the original fic that
spawned this, I'm hopeful that you'll pull it off.
Me too. Stay tuned. :) I think it would be unbelievable if his attitude
towards women, or at least specific women, HADN'T changed radically as a
result of the events I've hinted at...
Kiima touched it, and it wasn't; smooth callus hardened the
calluses
Technically "callosity", but my dictionary has "callus" as a synonym. I
believe my usage is allowable, though I'll admit it's uncommon.
"What is it, Koruma? Oh, the intelligence reports."
"I ran across something that I thought you'd want to see."
Koruma looked unhappy about it.
KIMA: What's this? Masara's IQ test results? I didn't know they gave negative
scores.
Koruma: Um... you'reholdingthescrollupsidedown...
Lounging in Kiima's large bed on a lazy, rainy morning,
Ranma let his eyes wander over Kiima's lithe form. It was a
pleasant journey. Kiima lay on her side with her wings stretched
out behind her and her head pillowed on her forearm; it was a
posture that displayed the long curve of her hip and thigh very
attractively. He noticed something that reminded him of
something he'd meant to ask about. "I see you have a navel."
"Much like yours." Kiima was eyeing him about the same way.
"So your people are born, not hatched?"
Actually, some of them are born and THEN hatched.
Who, Saffron? We don't know what he ever was born, though we see him
hatch twice... or do you mean the Surikomi, er, Imprinting Eggs?
Say, while we're on the subject, did you notice that I didn't use any
gratuitous Japanese in the whole story? Didja? Huh? :)
"And this," Kiima said, taking a jade bracelet off her
wrist, "this is for your wife, in apology for delaying your
return to her."
KIMA: And this pendant is for Shan Pu... and here's a ring for your mistress,
and... darn it, I'm out.
Well, Kiima figures that his wife is the only one she owes anything to;
the others are in the same situation she is. Do I need to explain or
underline that?
All in all, definitely an extraordinary story. Nicely expressive writing, and it
was a joy to see Ranma acting so much like... well, like Ranma -- except for his
newfound ease with woman, which still needs to be developed in the backstory.
As I said to Phil, I see how this happened, but it would be unfair to
expect you to. Yet. :)
Looking forward to more of these stories, or more Centaur, whichever comes
first. :)
My imagination is an undisciplined thing, and I have little control over
what it makes me write. I'm sure you understand that. :)
And now on to Brian Payne's comments on Gary's comments:
After struggling for a good chunk of the weekend trying to C&C the
original, I finally said 'screw it' and decided to C&C Gary's C&C, since it
raised some points that I have opinions on (and, frankly, because my Witty
Comment-O-Tron seems to be on the blink regarding the original fic, and
there wasn't all that much I *could* criticize... :)
Well... er... actually, it helps to hear what worked as well as what
still needs work... "criticism" can be positive. Indeed, telling me what
you liked increases the likelihood that I'll do it again. :)
So. Here goes.
Gary Kleppe <kleppe@mediaone.net> wrote:
Vincent Seifert <seifertv@csus.edu> wrote:
Ranma and the Heart of the Phoenix
Whew, long chapter. :) I'll try not to repeat anything Phil's already pointed
out.
*nods* That was also one of the problems I was having. Sheesh.
In retrospect, perhaps I should have divided the posting; the story has
two natural division points, so I could have posted it in three parts,
separated by a couple of days, for the convenience of C&Cers and people
whose email chokes on big files. I considered doing so, but the FFML has
accepted larger filesizes, and I remember how much easier it was on me
as a C&Cer when Alan Harnum started posting WUE chapters in one part
instead of 3 or 4...
If anyone has an opinion on this issue, I'd like to hear it-- privately,
please. Other posters of large files may also be interested, and I will
summarize to the list if called upon to do so.
"No longer," Helubor said tightly. "As for plans... I await
your suggestions with keen interest."
"Well, my friend, I'm sure I can come up with something--
oh, drop the wrath already; purple is NOT your color. Actually,
Was he turning purple? The narration never mentioned it.
No, it didn't... but I think I prefer it that way. It's an indirect way
of describing the scene, rather than blatantly saying that Helubor's turning
purple with wrath. This caught my attention much more directly, and had the
bonus of making me chuckle, which a straight description wouldn't have done.
That's what I had in mind, yes.
"If you mean mate and bear children--" Fanael nodded-- "not
if I have to do it with Helubor."
Punctuation seems rather odd here. Suggest:
and bear children," Fanael said, nodding, "not
Ah, but see, Fanael is NOT the one speaking here. :) It's still Kiima
talking. The 'Fanael nodded --' part is a narrative interjection, and is
perfectly legit.
What Brian said. :)
Still, though, it'd read easier if it was written more as though Kiima
had trailed off, like:
"If you mean mate and bear children..." Kiima began. At Fanael's nod,
Kiima shuddered. "Not if I have to do it with Helubor."
I guess I streamlined a bit too much there... I'll see about rewording this.
"I see," Kiima said. She eyed her deputies speculatively.
"Are you suggesting, perhaps, that it would be a good idea to
have him guarded round the clock?"
"Definitely," said Koruma. Beside him, Masara cringed
suddenly. Kiima favored the more astute of the pair with a
humorless smile.
"That's right. YOU get to guard him."
Again, good joke, but IMO the presentation could be better. Maybe have one of
the birdboys say something like "Boy, I feel sorry for the poor suckers who get
stuck with *that* duty...." and Kima just nods at them.
I disagree. IMO, that would be much too blatant for the tone of this
fic. Vince seems to have been aiming at a rather understated tone, which I
personally find very entertaining. The humor is there, but they aren't just
in-your-face gags.
Just my opinion, of course, but I much prefer subtlety. :)
to which Gary responded:
Just to clarify, my problem actually wasn't that the setup was too
subtle, but that the punchline was too blatant. It would be fine with me
if instead of explaining the joke so explicitly, Kima just smiled at
them and they figured it out.
Thanks for the observations. I'll try to improve this without ruining
it. :)
"A little while is all we require," Taragon said smoothly.
He waited until Masara and Koruma had departed, looking
mistrustfully over their shoulders, and then addressed Ranma
again. "Did you defeat Lady Kiima, groundling?"
"The name's Ranma. No."
Isn't he a bit miffed at having to admit this? I'd expect something like "Well,
kind of. Okay, technically, no. Not really. Hey, she got lucky!"
Now this I do agree with. Changed or no, Ranma would probably still
have issues with admitting defeat... although a case could be made for the
argument that, since he's already given up so much (explained in A Man Among
Women), he doesn't find the concept as galling as he once did.
For this, I'd suggest something like:
"Did you defeat Lady Kiima, groundling?"
Ranma looked uncomfortable. "Well.. that is... ah..."
Taragon nodded and looked smug, while the other simply said, "I imagine
you could have if you truly wanted to. You were just taken by surprise,
caught by a trick. Isn't that so?"
(IMO, it'd be more likely for Helubor to look smug - he seems much more
likely to be playing the Bad Cop - but I'm just going with what's already
written. :)
Actually, I did that on purpose; it's another aspect of Ranma's changed
character, fitting in with what he says later to Kiima about their
win/lose tally. At 26, he's stronger, more skilled, and more experienced
than he was at the end of the manga; he's not modest, but he doesn't
need to exaggerate either. Winning and losing are like points in a game
to him, especially since he routinely "handicaps" himself.
Note also what he says to Akane in AMAW: "...it's all my fault, and
that's all there is to it." No evasion there, and that's not the same
Ranma either, and I meant it. :)
There's also the fact that he doesn't give a flying-- er, he doesn't
care what Helubor and Taragon think of him. :)
As Ranma climbed the steps, the splendor that was Saffron's
throne room appeared to his astonished eyes as the sun appears
over the horizon at dawn. Guards lined the wide avenue leading
Two uses of "appear" here. Suggest simply: 'as the sun over the....'
Hmm... possible, but sometimes, two uses of a single word is the most
effective way to portray the scene. I think that's the case, here. Without
the second 'appear', I find it more confusing.
It's like alliteration or rhyme; a poetic parallel. I like the sound of
it, so I think I'll keep it.
Kiima glanced at Ranma. "It is true that Ranma did no
lasting harm to any of your guards, and I believe him that his
motives for intruding were free of malice."
This would work better if there had been some sort of scene between these two
earlier. As is, I think Kima's niceness toward Ranma comes out of nowhere.
*nods* Yup. He may be handsome, but he just whupped all of her
underlings and nearly beat her, as well. And duty seems to be her primary
motivation for nearly everything, so I don't think that his looks and charm
would have THAT much of an effect without some sort of interaction between
the fight and now.
It's a sort of reversal of the brave-captain-pleading-clemency-for-the-
beautiful-prisoner, I'll admit, but really Kiima is just being
fair-minded here. She doesn't want to see him executed for an offense
that doesn't merit it, just because no one would speak in his favor.
I considered a diversion that had Kiima being friendly enough with Ranma
while he was in custody that others started to notice, and it became a
factor in her sentencing after she "let" Ranma escape, but the darn
story was getting so BIG! So I didn't write it.
"You're still going to be a standout, though," Ranma
observed. "Nyanniichuan won't change your hair color or your
height, or your looks."
Suggest: 'height, or how good lookin' you are."' (As written, Ranma's comment
might be taken as 'the way you look,' in which case Kima's reaction that follows
isn't really appropriate.) I expect you expect me to say something about the
hair color thing here, but I think it stands on its own. :)
Oh, _no_. Not THAT argument again... :)
No, Gary knows I know that onna-Ranma's hair isn't really red. :)
Another bad point was bad leadership. Captain Kiima had
been a good leader, and Pepa hadn't known it until he'd gotten a
bad leader. Koruma and Masara tried their best, but Lord Helubor
was a bad captain, and that was all there was to it. Captain
Kiima yelled at them and hit them, but that was because she
wanted them to be better guards, and thought they could be better
guards if she yelled at them and hit them. Lord Helubor yelled
at them and hit them because he thought they were scum.
An hour ago Lord Helubor had shown up all excited and
started issuing orders. Weird orders. Koruma and Masara had
explained them as "stay on your toes", which was why Pepa and his
partner were guarding this door instead of practicing to impress
girls.
Seems like you could show some of these things just as easily as you're telling
them to us here. I'm not sure what constitutes a "weird order."
Neither were they. :)
True. I got the feel during this part that Vince was in a bit of a
hurry to get to the next scene. I like the scene with the guards - it adds
a touch of humor to an otherwise pretty dry stretch - but I agree: it'd be
better with a more solid lead-up, so we could get a better feel for the
situation.
It's pacing control and comic relief, yes. And I never can help
wondering what Star Wars looked like to the stormtroopers, or Raiders of
the Lost Ark to the Wehrmacht grunts. :)
But Helubor's orders *didn't* make much sense; he was trying to cover
his ass, with no idea of where the Heart would show up next, and was
basically flapping around in a panic telling the guards to do several
incompatible things at once. I figured the effects of that, particularly
on the guards themselves, would be more interesting (and amusing) than
Helubor himself.
I'll think about this, but I'm afraid it would damage the pacing without
adding much.
"Let it be said that at least he died with honor, then,"
said Saffron. "He has been proven guilty, and he has paid the
penalty; justice has been done." He turned to Taragon, held by
Koruma and Masara. "And what of this one?"
This is a little unsatisfying. The truth is, Helu *wasn't* proven guilty. We
know that he's not as good a fighter as Kima; we know that his henchman is
underhanded; but it'd be nice if Ranma and Kima had managed to prove that *he*
had stolen the gem, which none of this does.
Again, I gotta agree with Gary. This was the part of this fic that I
disliked the most. Helubor WAS guilty; we know that, since we saw the whole
thing. But Saffron didn't. Granted, their tradition may be important
enough to them that they consider failure to win (failure to survive?) as
sufficient grounds for determining guilt... but it's a very unsatisfying way
to deal with it.
To be honest, I was expecting some sort of trick - Helubor is lethally
wounded, but lives long enough to try to kill Kiima one more time with his
last gasp of effort; Taragon drops a smoke bomb and vanishes into the
catacombs, dragging his wounded compatriot with him; y'know, some plot
twist that would prove that Helubor and Taragon were the real bad guys. As
it is, it's proved that Taragon is via the attack on Ranma, but nothing ever
really proves that Helubor is guilty.
Understood. The thing is that there's a point about "trial by combat"
that I think has eluded you: it's not "might makes right", it goes
deeper than that to "right makes might". This was clearest in the
European tradition, but it shows up wherever trial by combat is used,
which is most places at some time or another: God/Fate/Whatever will see
to it that Right prevails, so that the combat really does determine who
was right and who was wrong. This is a difficult concept for most of us to
grasp, but it's real and historical; look it up.
The other thing is that Saffron is acting as Magistrate of the High
Justice, and his ruling would decide right and wrong; proof is not
required unless he requires it. Another difference from Western law, but
it would be pretty silly to expect Phoenix Mountain to be operating on
the principles of Western law, I think. I can research Confucian law and
report, but I don't think it would add anything to the story...
It should be clear that I'm aware of this, because Kiima, "good cop"
that she is, is concerned by it; she would like to be able to prove
Helubor's guilt, even though she was sure enough of it to accuse him and
kill him because she knew she and Ranma weren't guilty.
One minor point that bugged me, as well, was that Helubor goes from
trying to mate Kiima to trying to kill her without so much as a moment's
hesitation. I can believe that his only motivation for mating with her
would be to (for example) gain power, but I don't recall ever seeing just
WHAT he would gain, unless the only thing he was after was her beauty.
Kiima alludes to it: once mated, there would be pressure on her to step
down as Seneschal and cede the office to her mate.
"Lady Fanael, of the House of the Hawk?" Ranma asked.
"Yes." Kiima stared down at Helubor's body, looking quite
distraught. "I just killed her brother."
FANAEL: My name is Fanael Montoya. Prepare to die.
I was thinking that, actually. :)
Fanny seems like she'd be a good way to show her brother as more than just a
cliche villain. She could be aware of some of his motivations, something to give
us a handle on why he did what he did.
Yeeesss... but I'd hate to see it become one of those pithy 'He really
wasn't a bad guy; he did what he did to help [insert whatever here]'. IMO,
that'd completely ruin the story. Something like this NEEDS a bad guy,
somebody who we can all dislike, who may have redeeming features but is
still without a question the Villian.
and then Gary comes back with:
Again, to clarify, I wasn't suggesting going that far. I'd just like to
know that he was a bad guy for a believable *reason,* and not simply
because the story needed a bad guy.
He's not as evil as WUE's Helubor, but he's enough worse than a
Takahashi conflict-of-agendas villain that it was appropriate to kill
him off rather than subject him to some humorously degrading
comeuppance. I wasn't interested in making him sympathetic.
As for his motives, Kiima outlined those, and she was not mistaken:
she knows her peers. One of the things I borrowed from Alan's WUE
Phoenix Mountain setting was the notion that it was an ancient culture
in a long decline. One of the symptoms of this is that the aristocracy
becomes more interested in privilege than in duty; Kiima is unusual in
that respect, among others. Lacking real challenges, the nobles
intrigue. Helubor simply wanted more than life had given him, and was
wicked enough to sacrifice Kiima for that end.
This was not stated in that much detail, I admit, but there's usually
more to a story than I actually write; I find that preferable to the
reverse. ;)
Looking forward to more of these stories, or more Centaur, whichever comes
first. :)
Agreed. Personally, I'd go for more of this before more Centaur, but
hey - that's just me. :)
Preference noted. As Doug has observed on several occasions, I bow to
peer pressure with ridiculous ease. :)
Thanks for your opinions, they're just the sort of comments I was hoping
for!
Vince Seifert Fanfic Analyst FFIRC Frog
Prime: seifertv@csus.edu
Backup: seifertv@myrealbox.com
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Fanfic: http://www.csus.edu/indiv/s/seifertv/toth/
Ideas are worth their weight in gold.