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From:
"Mass Dahn" <mass_dahn@hotmail.com> | Block
address
To:
ffml@fanfic.com
Subject:
[FFML] Re: C&C Genma's Daughter Part 1
Date:
Thu, 23 Mar 2000 04:51:17 PST
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From: Allyn Yonge <ayonge@yahoo.com>
To: spardue@zebra.net, dgoldsmith@mac.com,
ffml@fanfic.com
Subject: [FFML] C&C Genma's Daughter Part 1
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:23:32 -0500
Hi,
Sorry this is so delayed.
I'm running behind on my C&C
due to Real Life, among other things.
My comments ##
EVERYTHING is In My Opinion (IMO)
whether specifically indicated or not.
As always, all rights to Ranma 1/2 belong to Rumiko
Takahashi and
Shougakukan
Genma's Daughter
Part 1
Original concept and sketch by Steve Pardue
Story by Deborah Goldsmith and Steve Pardue
Suddenly Ranma bounced over the wall, her pigtail
fluttering in
the wind as she flew through the air. As she landed
she swung her
body about swiftly, her right foot cutting through
the air to
catch Kunou as he appeared over the wall, his body
stretched out
in mid-glomp. Caught by Ranma's kick, Kunou was
launched
heavenward, out cold.
##Nice. A few nit-picks. ^_^ I'd change Ranma to
Ranko,
Ran-ko or something similar. However this is not
strictly necessary.
However I'm afraid that "glomp" disrupts the mood of
the piece.
(I don't like "sweat drop" either.^_^ )
Don't complain about this chapter its great. the small
flaws made the
story better. And as you will see calling Ranma, Ranma
is correct.
Snorting at the kendoist's flight, Ranma turned
towards the
house, ignoring the panda in the pond. She pulled her
shirt up
and twisted it out, trying to remove at least some of
the water
which had thoroughly soaked it. Mumbling, she stepped
up on the
porch and headed towards the stairs.
"Ranko?"
##OK, ignore my earlier comment about "Ranko". The
contrast
between "Ranma" & "Ranko" is a good one. (still,
Ran-ko or
Ranma-chan are possibilities.)
You see? and no Ran-ko and Ranma-chan wouldn't be the
right way to
describe
him as it is only the way Genma sees him not some
other person like
Daitsuke. Genma would only think of him as Ranma, even
in Ranma's
female
form cause he has to.
@@That was not the argument. The problem was confusion
when
READING.
Ranma shifted her weight again. She didn't like to
lie,
##Errrr, since when? ^_^ Again, this is open to
interpretation.
However Ranma has been less than forthcoming at times
in the manga/anime. IMO the idea that Ranma is a
model
of truth, justice and the Japanese way is a fanfic
myth.
Not really. true Ranma has lied many times but there
is nothing that
suggest that he ever like lying.
@@Hmmmm, possibly. OTOH there is nothing to suggest
he is reluctant to do so. This is a matter of
interpretation. I look
at manga stories such as the "Battle Suit" or the "age
changing mushrooms"
and Ranma's behavior, _to me_, suggests that he is
less than truthful
when it suits him. And does not feel particularly
guilty.
Ranma noticed that her Pop was
scurrying out of the house with his pack in hand, but
was too
shocked by meeting her mother to do anything about
it.
##I like Genma. ^)^
The emotional reaction between Ranma/mother needs a
bit more
development.
IMO you've made a good start, but it's too shallow to
be really
believable.
More detail and development please.
NO! not more detail this is just something Ranma sees
in a passing and
doesn't really think about. instead he files it away.
@@You misunderstand. NOT more detail on Genma running
away.
More detail on the reaction between Ranma and his
Mother.
Nodoka searched Akane's eyes for some sign of
recognition, but
found none. The sound of footsteps in the hall behind
her caused
her to turn again. Soun stood there, with Kasumi
beside him. Soun
started to speak, but apparently couldn't find the
right words.
He settled, instead, for successfully fighting back
his
ever-present tears.
## Use of Soun's "tears" are unnecessary
at this point and detract from the story. Personally
I feel that Souns tears/demon head, Akane's
mallet/cooking,
Rouga getting lost world wide, etc should be used
VERY carefully and sparingly since they've been
reduced to the point of cliche. You've got a
very nice story to this point. Don't spoil it. ^_^
Yes, but if Suon wouldn't cry open seeing Nodoka after
seen he had seen
her see her daughter in female form I don't know when
he would cry.
@@The point was, IMO, "Soun's tears" detract from the
story.
IMO it was unnecessary to the story and,_to me_, read
as if it had
been added to the story simply as a rather "stock"
fanfiction cliche.
"Well, of course it's true, Ranma. And I should know.
Who else do
you think Genma and Soun would come running to once
they found
out they'd never have sons to carry on the families'
schools?"
##THIS needs a lot more development. Perhaps you've
done
so later in the story. However I'd like at least a
little more
explanation at this point. The primary reason for
marrying
off Akane is due to the ENORMOUS inheritance taxed.
Parents
can _give_ property to children as wedding present.
In this
case it seems VERY strange they would go to this
length.
Genma has a reason since w/o a son he has no real
assets
to gain the Tendou doujou. Soun certainly seems to
have little
reason to do this. You need to provide a _reason_ to
go to
all this trouble. For that matter why not make Akane
the boy? Soun could use a son as well. He's got two
spare daughters.
IMO would make more sense to make Akane & Ranma boys.
Genma would still have two of Soun's daughters to
choose from
AND Soun would have a son as well.
Read the third part, it explains this. Besides what
the hell is wrong
with you? Do you want the WHOLE plot revealed in the
first sentences or
something?
@@I beg your pardon! There is no need for profanity.
The author
of this story did not find it necessary. However, to
answer . . .no I do not find
it necessary to have the entire plot revealed "in the
first sentences". In _this_
instance I thought, and still think, that the entire
story is too rushed. There
is a great deal of "back story" (to use a term from
another reader) that is assumed
by the author but is unknown to the reader.
All of the people in the room stared at Happi in
shock. Nodoka
drew her katana and waved it threateningly. "You
helped that
bastard do this to my beautiful baby girl?"
##Seems more than a bit OOC for Nodoka, considering
what little we know of her from manga.
Listen. The fact that we don't get to know THAT much
about Nodoka's
character is because there isn't that much
interesting. And the fact
that we don't know so much leaves more room for
developing her. SHE is NOT out
of Character.
@@ I said that it "seems" OOC from what we know of
her. And it does.
I can find no instance of her in either the manga or
anime acting in this manner.
I did NOT say that the author could not or should not
develop Nodoka's
character in this direction.
Akane's temper was starting to flare. "Daddy, what
does he mean,
'Genma and Soun'? You didn't help him do this to
Uncle Saotome's
daughter, did you?"
##I'd think Akane would show a little more confusion
about
things at this point. She seems too ready to believe
that
Ranma started out as a girl. IMO this is not
believable.
Only thing I agree with you on. in the beginning Akane
SHOULD be a
little more confused. And wouldn't accept this so
lightly. But remember that
the author wrote this part in lapses and this was
probably never meant to
be such a long part to begin with. So I guess you
could say this was a
left over from the original story.
Akane stalked across the room towards him. "How could
you do that
to your own mother, Ranma? After all the years you've
been
separated, how could you do that to her?"
##??? Quite frankly I think Ranma reacted VERY well
under
the circumstances. This is a bit much for anyone to
take all at once.
Yes, he might be very well but listen here This is NOT
what YOU think.
You are not in the story and cant really relate. This
is what Akane is
Thinking and in her opinion she feels betrayed by
Ranma and when she sees an
opportunity to get back at him she takes it.
maybe this is the reason why she Accepted Ranma being
a REAL girl so
fast. Maybe she just did it unconsciously because she
wanted it to be true so
that she could argue with him. and tell him what a
jerk she thought he was.
@@OK. Good point. OTOH the reader _should_ be able to
relate.
IMO the story needed to be developed more in order for
the reader
to develop this sort of empathy.
The inside of the house was hard for Akane or Ranma
to describe.
It felt almost like a shrine, well kept and well
loved, but with
the sort of omnipresent
##Errrr, oppressive?
Oh you don't know what the word Omnipresent means?
what a petty.. but
not very surprising. Omnipresent = all that a person
is taking in, that
persons everything. well it means that the room makes
the people feel it is all
there is. GAH I cant explain it but that is what it
means.
@@ Omnipresent: universal or present everywhere. I
did not and
do not think it fits.
It felt almost like a shrine, well kept and well
loved, but with
the sort of [pervasive] weight that made you want to
speak in
whispers.
It felt almost like a shrine, well kept and well
loved, but with
the sort of [ever present]weight that made you want to
speak in
whispers.
It felt almost like a shrine, well kept and well
loved, but with
the sort of [universal] weight that made you want to
speak in
whispers.
Replacing "omnipresent" with it's various synonyms
shows, IMO, that omnipresent does not quite fit.
A pretty young woman in a dress, with long black
hair, was
walking into the genkan on the TV, holding a little
girl in her
arms: Akane. Ranma felt Akane's hand squeeze his
tighter, until
it was almost painful. "Mother," she sobbed once, and
wiped the
tears from her cheek with her free hand.
##Nice, if a little confusing. It took me a couple of
read through's
to figure out this was Akane's mother.
G, what a surprise. I understood it was her mother the
moment she was
introduced. here is NOTHING confusing about this part.
@@Errrr, as I mentioned earlier, everything is IMO.
The authors of this story are fortunate to have such
an impassioned defender. Nothing I have said is meant
as an attack on either them or their story. That said,
C&C constitutes the "comments and criticism" of
a particular reader. Criticism in this instance
consists
of those points in the story that _IMO_ would benefit
from changes or elaboration. The author, as always, is
free
to accept or reject such suggestions. However the
author
can do neither _until_ they are put before her or him.
##I'm trying to figure out the Red Hair/blue eyes.
(other than
the fact the Japanese like to use a lot of colour in
anime. ^_^)
The best I can come up with is Nodoka has European or
Anu blood.
And the Anu is a stretch. They are of different stock
than the
Japanese(who
are of Korean descent) but that's an awfully _bright_
red. And the
_blue_
eyes are a problem. And if Nodoka is NOT pure
Japanese this makes
Soun's
willingness to >ally with the family even stranger.
Bad enough that he
was
a _she_ >to begin with but the family's not pure
Japanese. This is a
VERY
big
deal among traditional families.
And now you are complaining about the anime. Listen I
don't know why
The hair colors was used in Ranma. But I can tell you
that in reality most
blue haired girls and such really are black haired.
The reason why they are
painted redhaired or blue or green or purple is
because The colors is a
way of describing there nature, a way of telling
people apart easier in the
anime. For example the fact that Ranko in the anime
has blue eyes and
red hair can be explained as . Red hair= willful short
fuse blue eyes =
honorable person, good.
@@Good point. And I failed to make myself clear. As I
explained to the
authors this was not meant as a complaint. It was
merely a "thought question".
Since the authors made a specific point of connecting
Nodoka's red hair
and blue eyes to Ranma's female form I was trying to
conceive of a rational
explanation for these traits to enter the gene pool.
She had no doubt that the little redhead on the TV
was Ranma -- or at least, his female form. What on
Earth had
happened? She now understood Ranma's rude behavior
towards his
mother: he simply could not deal with this.
##Why "no doubt"? A twelve year old video of a little
girl?
Even without video manipulation I'd hate to have to
make an
ID based on nothing more than this.
Why no doubt? well I thought about this also. But then
Why would ANYone
go to these lengths? also remember that Suon had
earlier confirmed the
truth about Ranma's true gender.
@@Good points. However people in Real Life often do
very bizarre
things. This is even more true in the Ranma-verse.
IMO, if a strange
woman . . .a complete stranger recall, suddenly
appeared at your door
and said "Hello, I'm your mother. And, BTW, you were
born a girl" (assuming
you're a boy now, otherwise change an X to Y
chromosome)
Would _you_ accept this so easily and so quickly? From
my reading and personal
experience it does not seem likely that such
_traumatic_ news would be accepted
so quickly and smoothly.
##Main Coon Cat ?
Interesting as well, since many Japanese regard cats
as bad luck.
Now you are just being ignorant. There are just some
aspects of that.
And there ARE certain religions in Japan that hold the
cat as holy.
@@I never said there were not. I also didn't mention
that Sailors
and fishermen believe tortoiseshell tomcats protect
them against
shipwreck, black cats are believed to protect against
disease or that
cats that have been killed come back for vengeance and
haunt their killer
for seven life-times.
Ranma felt numb, as if he were freezing to death. The
room seemed
to fade away as his senses shut down. The simple fact
that he,
Saotome Ranma, Man Amongst Men, was a girl, a girl
named Ranko,
occupied his entire universe, crowding everything
else out. Time
seemed to slow down, as this fact rolled over and
engulfed every
truth he had held about himself. His view of who he
was was
disintegrating, replaced by an enormous gulf of
questions and
uncertainty.
##No. This should take MUCH longer to happen.
There have been several recent books and articles on
Gender Reorganization. It is almost impossible that
Ranma would accept things this quickly and in this
manner.
Also, the fact that "he" saw himself as male seems to
indicate
that he really WAS male, despite the body he or she
was born with.
The most recent findings indicate that even with
gender reorganization
AT BIRTH a "male" will still think and act as a male.
The fact that
Ranma thought of himself as male, even when in a
female body,
suggests that Genma was perfectly correct in changing
Ran-ko to
Ran-ma. I suppose you could invoke "magic" to
explain the mental
change. That is very much like cheating, IMO. It
really doesn't
explain
anything.
No! please stop this you are making yourself the fool.
please reads the
rest of the parts before writing anything more okay?
Ranma has NEVER felt comfortable as a boy. And after a
while she forgot
she really was a girl. Her father told her girls was
stupid and weak and a
lower being. He said she must be strong. Ranma got
this every day. And he
didn't want to be weak. so he behaved as a boy.
Though like a boy. but
emotionally he/she was dead.
@@As I pointed out to the authors, one of the problems
with writing fanfiction is dealing with established
characters
and situations. Ranma, as an established character
does NOT
feel this way. IMO this particular fanfiction needed
more
"back story" to make these changes convincing, IMO.
@@I understand this was the authors intent. However,
again IMO,
there was too much left unsaid in this story. The
authors are dealing
with well established characters and situations.
Making such drastic changes
is perfectly legitimate. Changes are the heart of
fanfiction. However, IMO,
such changes need a great deal of justification and
development. In My Opinion
while very well written, this fanfiction needed more
detail, more explanation, more
_back story_. The authors are perfectly free to
disagree with me, and did so
on may poinst. Other readers are also free to
disagree.
However, at this point, I would request that such
disagreement be less
rancorous.
##This doesn't work at all. Abused children almost
always
cling to their abuser. Children who have been
kidnapped by one
parent give loyalty to THAT parent and reject the
other. Even
when one parent murders the other parent the children
will
remain loyal to the parent who kills. You are
painting much
too simple a picture of a very complex situation.
It's a reasonable
start but needs MUCH more detail. Things are
happening much
too fast and in much too simplistic a fashion.
Ranma IS being loyal. She feels anger towards her
father but she can
only think of him as great. Yet in an analytic way she
denies he has done
anything wrong but thinks he has done something wrong
anyway.
So it does work out.
@@Point taken. I disagree to the extent that I think
the
manner in which this is portrayed is not detailed to
the degree,
IMO, such an emotional scene should be. Again, I think
some
very crucial and potentially very interesting scenes
are done
too quickly and smoothly.
1)Why not doubt?
2)IMO there has been nothing to "forcibly remove"
doubts.
Some suggestive information, but certainly no proof.
Ranma's memories are important. However human memory
is very untrustworthy. And besides being a memory
over a
decade old, something has been changing Ranma's body.
Why not
his mind as wel.
There is the "connection" that you will read about
later which will
explain why Akane takes this as she does.
@@Point taken. I would prefer at least a little
foreshadowing but this
may well be a stylistic point.
Akane pulled her knees up with her arms around them,
rested her
head on them, and sighed. Was this the root of her
attraction to
and repulsion from Ranma? Had she somehow been ready
for a
red-haired girl to walk back into her life? The best
friend who
had been stolen away? Was that why the idea of being
engaged to
him seemed so uncomfortable? She thought of the
handful of times
they had actually kissed. There had been the pleasure
of sharing
something special with him, but there had always been
that
discomfort... a discomfort that, she found, was now
starting to
blossom into a feeling of true queasiness. Despite
the schoolyard
taunts, Akane was not interested in girls, not that
way, but her
feelings about Ranma had left her concerned about her
own
sexuality; why had the idea of intimacy with him
disturbed her so
much? Had she at some level been aware that Ranma was
her
red-haired "bestest friend"? Could she now view him
as anything
else?
##IMO you have not developed this enough to be
believable. One of the problems with writing
fanfiction is
dealing with already established characters and
situations.
This is a _radical_ departure from cannon. IMO such
an abrupt
and drastic change in the relationship between Ranma
and Akane
needs much more preparation than it has been given.
Quite frankly
this is so unbelievable as written it is
uncomfortable to read. It CAN
work. There is nothing inherently impossible about
the situation.
However you have Akane and Ranma accepting these
changes
MUCH too readily. It's all happening too quickly and
too smoothly.
Real life is not like this. IMO you have gotten to
this point in
about
twenty one pages when, realistically, it should take
at least >ALL of
this
chapter to get to this point.
Yes... BUt there was a CONNECTION that was
reestablished the time Ranma
and Her pandafather arrived at the Tendou home. This
was taken in on an sub
conscious level by Akane and filed away.
True you could use this whole chapter to establish
that. But then There
is a very big chance that you would KILL the story by
dragging it out.
@@I am not arguing _what_ but rather _how_ it is
presented.
Again, this may be stylistic. Different authors write
differently and
readers prefer different styles. However it is _my_
opinion that
this "connection" needs much more development to be
believable.
And, while much _may_ be explained in later chapters
there still
needs, IMO, to be at least a little foreshadowing to
help the reader
over the rough spots.
##??? Akane didn't even remember any of this. IMO
this is very
contrived
sounding. Again it could work. But you are rushing
things too much.
Take your time and DEVELOP the story.
SUB CONSCIOUSNESS! YOU BAKA!
@@You don't have to yell.
I stand by my opinion that the story is insufficiently
developed to this point to make Akane and Ranma
believable characters. IMO the authors
have developed interesting characters and situations
in a well written style. The basic problem, IMO, is
overcoming
their already established characters in order to make
_this_
story believable.
##Better. This is a reasonable line of thought.
You only say this Because you are one of those people
that want Akane
to Ranma's girlfriend no matter what. This is why you
don't like they are
changing Akane. This is Why you don't like Ranma
accepting herself as a
Girl. If you had your way this would turn out into a
lesbian story you
Hentai!
@@ I have no objections to any changes these authors
or any
other writers make in their story. They may, if they
wish, make
Ranma the master of Anything Goes Certified Public
Accounting
and marry him off to Cologne, Ryouga or both. However,
Ranma
contains established characters and situations. IMO
the more an
author deviates from canon the more and more detailed
explanation
is necessary to justify such deviation. Takahashi-sama
is the ONLY
authority on Ranma and her story is about the romance
between
Ranma and Akane. By all means make changes, but
_justify_ those
changes within the context of the story. Otherwise you
have
characters of the same name but bearing no discernable
relationship to
the originals.
Ranma started to retort that she didn't need any help
from a
klutz like Akane, but stopped, and thought. Usually
she was the
one doing the helping; she relied on no one, hiding
her feelings
>from the world. But... this was not just another
fight, where she
was in her element and knew she could win. All the
martial arts
in the world were not going to help her with this.
She had been
going around in circles in her mind, chasing her own
tail.
Maybe... maybe it was time to open up, to share her
feelings, to
have someone else... help.
##OK, where's the real Ranma and what have you done
with him . . .errr . . her. ^_*
Remember that this IS the real Ranma. RAnma is a GIRL
in this story.
And the reason why she is behaving like a jerk is
explained cause she thinks
every real emotion she has is wrong.
Besides that Ranma is such a Jerk is not true. You
have read to many
fanfics.. or relied to much on the dubbed version.
@@Ummm, I'll put a <humor on> tag next time.
I plead my ignorance of the Japanese language. Perhaps
in a few
more years I'll be able to read the originals rather
than
translations. However, relying on VIZ translations and
sub-titled
versions of the anime (and some dubbs) I have not seen
_any_ of the
characters demonstrate this much introspection.
However I accept that
my attempt at humor may have been misunderstood. I
still stand by
my opinion that this change in characterization needs
to be more
developed to be believable.
##Good. Helps show the "new" Ranma.
IMO this needs to be MUCH earlier in the story.
Or at least alluded to. IMO you need a lengthy
section with Ranma
showing how hard it is to be a man. Showing his
doubts. Also showing
some of the doubts Akane has, her ambiguous feelings.
That way there
won't be such an abrupt seeming change.
If you aver read the manga you know that Ranma is
very.. well he is
kinda a braggart. He is always taking being a man to
the outmost reaches always
defending it to madness. Why is he so afraid that
people might think
him a wuss? a girl? Surely he should be comfortable in
his own manhood to be
able to ignore what other people think. This can be
partly explained that he
is VERY stupid and his honor owns him.
@@Actually it can be explained by recalling that Ranma
is a comedy
and parodies many Japanese myths and cultural norms.
But this story, as Deborah pointed out, Gives another
reason to why he
always would defend his manhood. Cause he sub
consciously doubted
itself. Cause never truly was comfortable. So you see
how hard it is to be man
the manga had already shown.
@@IMO while this is a very interesting story concept,
this needs
to be better devloped within this story. As an
_original_ story this
would be much easier. Dealing with established
characters
causes problems specific to writing fanfic. Again,
IMO,
while it is certainly possible to postulate Ranma as a
girl, originally,
and Ranma and Akane as childhood friends there needs
to
be more detail to make this believable.
=====
"When I get a little money, I buy books;
And, if any is left, I buy food and clothes."-Erasmus
"A man is a small thing, and the night is large
and full of wonders." -Lord Dunsany
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