At 23:10 17-01-2000 -0700, Edward Becerra wrote:

At 06:16 PM 1/17/2000 -0800, Vincent Seifert wrote:

I haven't read this piece of fanfiction, but I feel I've got to comment
on this. I'm assuming it takes place in 'Nam because of the Mekong
Delta reference.

>>      Ngyuen chuckled, and motioned for his men to load the
>> disassembled rocket pipes into the jeep. "A better choice than
>> that guy made. He'll be lucky if he gets out of the Mekong
>> alive."
>
>{This may be an anachronism; webpage says 1959, this seems to be
>mid-60s, and shoulder-fired SAMs weren't available, let alone common,
>until the late 70s, if memory serves. SAMs of the time were about the
>size of telephone poles, and deployed and operated by many men and
>trucks. Unguided rockets would be jeep-portable, but would have a very
>low hit probability against an aircraft. Then again, this IS the
>Ranmaverse, where unrealistic things happen every day... :) }

Unguided rockets were already shoulder-mounted. The Russian RPG-7, the
American LAW... and let's not bring up the German Panzershreck and
American Bazooka.

About SAMs, the Americans did not use them because they had air superiority.
The Vietnamese also did not obtain SAMs before 1970, I believe. 1969 tops.
And they remained in the North. The VC and NVA usually used RPG-2/7 against
choppers, not guided missiles. And other planes were usually too high for shoulder
mounted SAMs, anyway.

        Uhh.. little incorrect here. Both the US and the USSR had
primitive shoulder-launched SAMs by then. They had idiotic little
infra-red seeker heads and were only useful if the target was headed
straight at you, but they DID have them.

Yes. But would they use in 'Nam? The Americans would prefer firing an
AIM-7 sparrow and blast the MIG and... hey, in 59 they did NOT have
MIG21s... what are the SAMs doing there?? Anyway, the US had more
sense than sending their troops with cumbersome and totally useless
shoulder-mounted SAMs. They would rather have that weight in the form
of body armor which was standard issue. Besides, the real threat was on
the ground.

        A few relevant quotes, and that'll be all I have to say
about this.

12 Oct 61 The REDEYE weapon system made its first public appearance when an
Army lieutenant successfully fired the missile during a special weapons
demonstration at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Among those witnessing the
demonstration were President John F. Kennedy, Defense Secretary Robert S.
McNamara, and Army Secretary Elvis J. Stahr, Jr.

Stupid question: If the fic takes place in 59, how come a sam only seen in 61 be
available? And ABROAD, at that.

Sep 65 Delivery of the Block I REDEYE systems began. Completed in May 66,
most of the weapons delivered were expended in engineering and service tests.

Worse still. If they were still testing them in 66, they certainly wouldn't use them in
Nam.

        The Soviets were actually a little ahead of us in this
field due to the numbers and skills of the German scientists
they'd grabbed.

Yup. Although the Americans weren't far behind in that respect.

        So it can be argued either way, I suppose.

Sorry, no portable SAMs. The NVA rarely, if ever, used pSAMs. They
relied on SA-2 (the telephone poles...). Not that it increased the chances
of scoring a hit though... 1000 SA-2 fired to down 3 B-52... And 2 of them
were downed by Russian 'advisors'...

        Hope that helps, and if you need more info, feel free
to get in touch.

Here also.

        Ed Becerra

        "Deamers may die, but the Dream is eternal..."

mucho metaphysical man!

PS: Did you know that the F-16 was (if I recall correctly) already available near
the end of the 'Nam war? It wasn't used though.

PPS: I wasn't aware of the REDEYE missile. It was probably more an experiment
than a serious attempt at improving infantry AA ability.

PPPS: This discussion is probably best to go off-list, because it's bordering on
technical details. Also, I've checked one of the previous replies and I got the impression
that it actually took place in Laos. If it's true, then the idea that it takes place in 59 is
even more far-fetched. The US were NOT bombing Laos at that time, for example. Oh,
and looking at a world map would do a world of good here. I got the distinct impression
that the author wasn't informed on local topology (that's the word, isn't it?).