Subject: Re: [FFML] Why public C&C is good... too
From: "Damon Casale" <damoo@jps.net>
Date: 8/28/1998, 9:05 PM
To: FFML

Wow... I have sifted through a lot of email over the past week, and a lot
of people have told me what they think about sending C&C to the ML instead
of privately. And the more I read, the more frustrated I got, because many
of you were telling me things like "The FFML is not for rough drafts" or
"I'd rather have my pre-readers check the story first."

The FFML is the place for this discussion, rather than in private, though, 
right?  Assuming we have new things to add to it, that is...and I think 
that I do.  We've already hashed out why public C&C is good, and why 
pre-readers are also good.  But wait...there's more!

First of all, let me say... the FFML *is* for rough drafts. I send "roughs"
myself. So all you new authors, don't be put off. Worried about more more
spam? Don't be. Be worried about more fics ;)

Second, pre-readers...

Okay... if they work for you then I can't argue with you, and I won't.

But one email I got, which wasn't even in response to my plea, seemed to
bring things into perspective the best.

Someone emailed *me* asking for C&C for their story. I was stunned. Only a
handful of people have ever asked me to comment on their stories. But this
individual said he thought I might have an experienced opinion, and asked
if I could take a look at their story.

The author then told me that it was the first chapter of their story, and
that they were a bit uncomfortable posting the story to the list.

Focus city.

I replied to the author, saying that they shouldn't be afraid or feel
uncomfortable sending their story to the list, even if it is the first
chapter of their story, because I was in the same position 3 years ago when
I joined the list. But I posted my first chapter thinking I was posting a
masterpiece! WRONG! Someone C&C'ed the story on the list, and they
disassembled my chapter very methodically, then left it there on the list,
exposed, crying out for a rock to hide under, and my ego in tatters.

Not only did the experience leave a lasting impression, but it actually
gave me the courage to post the chapter again, after some serious repairs :)

The comments about my story were also commented on, on the list. Those new
comments led to further refinements of the chapter that led to a final
draft. Without the first C&C'ers comments I might not have had the courage
to post again, and without the additional comments, the chapter might never
have been finished.

So, what's the difference between you getting C&C on your story three 
years ago, when you joined the list, and a new author asking for C&C, 
let's say publicly, today?  The difference is the volume of the list, which 
we've covered before.

Why is public C&C good?  We know why.  Why are pre-readers good?  
We've covered that, too, but for the record, they provide a (usually) 
reliable set of C&Cing on your fics.  The reason why pre-reader lists are 
more effective *today* than they were three years ago is because the 
volume of the list makes it difficult to single out *your fic* from among 
the many that come through every day.  C&C is more sporadic from the 
list at large, as opposed to a pre-reader group.

That's not to say that public C&C is a bad thing -- far from it!  In fact, 
maybe authors should submit their fics to their pre-readers and to the 
list simultaneously, and the pre-readers should CC their comments to 
the list.  Assuming, that is, that they feel their C&C is meaty enough to 
benefit other authors who might be reading it, instead of just being "I 
liked it!" spam.  :)

All writers have been criticized at some point in their careers for what
they write/wrote. And the lasting ones dealt with the criticism (in their
own unique way) and were able to carry on to treat us to some very
inspiring works :)

So to those who are using pre-reader lists: hang on to them, because the
feedback is good, no matter the size of the group. But realize that you
might also be depriving yourselves of feedback that you may not get by only
sending a polished or semi-polished draft to the FFML. This list was
created for *rough drafts* to be read and commented on. This isn't some
final jump off point to R.A.A.C. It's not the minor league just before you
go to "the show". It's a forum for fanfics to be discussed whatever their
shape or form. How would I know? Because that's what it was for when it
started and unless WW says different, then it still is.

And to those who are wary of posting their unpolished fics to the ML: go
for it! You don't know what you're missing! There are more people like Gary
Kleppe on this ML who may be waiting to read your story, and who may want
to tell you what they thought about it on the list. Don't deprive them of
that opportunity, and don't deprive yourself of a chance to get better at
what you love to do :)

And a final word to those who may be reading the fics out there, but may
not feel compelled to comment on the stories... try it. The authors of this
list spend a good deal of their spare time working on these stories and
they aren't getting paid for it, except for your feedback. Tell them what
you think, and please give them comments that might help them with the
story as well as bolstering their confidence. You are a part of this list
too, and without your comments, even the best pre-reader lists may not be
enough to keep some authors here to work on their craft.

One final comment about C&C:  it usually takes a rather significant time 
investment to give good comments back to the author.  A lot of people 
don't C&C very much, if at all, because of this lack of time.  If they are 
part of a pre-reader group, then obviously the author's stories that they 
preread for will (usually) take precedence over what's posted on the list.  
This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it means that getting good C&C 
from the list at large is less easy than getting good C&C from a pre-
reader group.  Not that it can't or won't happen -- it's just more sporadic, 
as I mentioned above.

And Andy, you _did_ give that budding author the C&C he asked for,
even after encouraging him to post his fic, right?  :)

Andy Skuse <I promise, no more about public C&C...unless things
don't change for the better around here<g>)

Me too.  I think that's about all that can be said about C&C (that I know 
of)...for the time being.  ;)


Damon Casale, damoo@jps.net
Spam, spam!  WONDERFUL Spam!!  ^_^