Before I start I would like to apologize to White Wolf; after my last
post, he asked both of us to stop it.  However, this is a different
matter, one that needs addressing.  

queenofswords, you have now got me really angry.  Only once in my life
have I read a more irresponsible, inappropriate post - and the 'anonymous 
imbecile' is no longer around, that I know of. Moreover, where in the
hell do you get that GARY'S words somehow discouraged me from writing
something?  

If you look, 'Clothes Make The...' was released in January 1997.  Gary was
just barely starting out then as a writer (if he was there at all).  I had
been writing for nearly a year at that time.  In the following months, I
argued with so many people concerning one characterization or another
on RAAF that I found myself almost burning out from the constant
arguments.

The post was inappropriate because you took a private argument public.  I
told you of the importance of taking responsibility for your words; you
didn't listen.  This is a SERIOUS breach of nettiquette.  If you can't be
asked to act honorably in this medium, please take your words elsewhere.

Please, in the future, stop throwing lies around, and focus on the truth.

-- Nick

On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, queenofswords wrote:

the unfortunate truth about writing and seeking publication of any kind is
that "editors" will hate your "brilliant" work...or it will seem personal
like that. steven king can paper a room with the rejection letters he
received early in his career and still receives. if you've read any of
king's "previously" unpublished work, you'll see why it was rejected. did
king take it personally? did he wail on the authors who read his stuff and
tore it to ribbons for the very things he saw in their works? ever seen an
interview w/ king wherte he calls (for instance) wes craven a hypocrite who
might be discouraging tender young writers from attempting to create? nope.
look, folks, we're writers because we love it. we invite c&c, then accept or
disregard it as we see fit, knowing the one who wrote it is as human as we
are. if you (people in general) fear c&c, don't invite it from the list in
as a whole. if you think a certain person's views are bs, it's ok to say you
prefer they not comment--but say it PRIVATELY, not in the same list-wide
request for c&c.

the world is full of stubborn bastards, who think they know it all, and
everybody else is full of sh**. deal with it. keep writing. hell, it's not
as if you can ever hope to publish your fanfics for profit.

nicholas, your last non-re message on this revealed your real motive for the
first email in this thread: you got burned by gary's comments to such a
degree that you backed off on an idea you thought was brilliant. (you hurt
me, gary; i'll get you for that, you big hypocritical jerk!) if it was
"brilliant", nicholas, its death wasn't gary's fault for shooting at it, but
yours for not acting to save it. and if it was brilliant, you've deprived
the rest of us of the entertainment we might have derived from your work. i
for one am not discouraged from reading a fic, no matter how many negative
reviews it might have received. and if others are, it's not the critics;
fault, but their own choice. i'd be open t o reading  the brilliant work in
question, even if it might mean my c&c would put me in the path of the sort
of attack you've made on gary kleppe, his thinking, his opinions and his way
of voicing them. i wouldn't be trying to see if you lived up to what you
said to me (and i quote): "Madam, I've lived my arguments.  Have you?" guess
i'm just not vindictive like that. or maybe i've been writing (not just
fanfics) for so long, i can't take any but a professional attitude toward
commentary on them.

i know better than to continue a childish thread like this, so i guess that
makes me a hypocrite, too. welcome to the human race, kathy.

kjh


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Kleppe <KLEPPE@execpc.com>
To: ffml@fanfic.com <ffml@fanfic.com>
Date: Saturday, August 22, 1998 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [FFML] Another message...

Nick Leifker <nightelf@thekeep.org> wrote:

If you had a brilliant idea for a story, one that would knock the socks
off people, but one that you knew would get bad press from a few
overzealous, overauthoritative people, would you write it?  Would you
release it, knowing that it would cause you a lot of unnecessary grief?
Would you even think of it, when narrow-minded people are blasting
other characterization ideas right and left?

Are you capable of discussing this without throwing around insults?

Anyway, my answer to your question is HELL YES, I would.

When I started writing fanfiction, the most (maybe ONLY) influential
critic around was Taleswapper. Taleswapper only ONCE ever liked anything
I wrote. Did I quit? Did I junk all of my ideas and try to emulate
Palmer or Lawson? No. Because I know that the stuff I write is
worthwhile -- and there are people out there who enjoy it. If
Taleswapper likes it, that's cool; but if Cindy Toler or Thomas Schmidt
likes it, that's just as cool. And if I can find out *why* Taleswapper
doesn't like it, I'll try to see whether there's anything I can learn

>from that.

Now, you seem to think that what I say has some sort of enormous
influence over the reading public. Well, maybe you know something I
don't. I talked to several people on IRC about your story during the big
argument thread on it. Many of them said they liked it. Some of them
said that they disliked it more than I did. Not one of them said, "I
agree with everything YOU said, of course! Thank you for telling me what
to think!"

I'm sorry you got upset by my reaction to your fic, Nick. But negative
criticism is a fact of life in any creative profession. If you're going
to write, and make your writing public, then you had damn well better
learn to deal with it without flaming your critics.


Gary Kleppe
http://www.execpc.com/~kleppe/comics