At 15:04 +0000 8/21/98, Gary Kleppe wrote:

Sean Connor <sec@softhome.net> wrote:

Now, in Sydney Kyle's fic, "Akane and Ranma", Mr. Kyle portrays Ukyou
as Ranma's best friend.  Again, there's no real proof either way.
(But again, however, there are reasons why she might be, or might not
be.)

There's strong indirect evidence that she's not, and I know of
absolutely no evidence that she is (I've challenged people to come up
with some).

Ara?  Strong evidence that she's not his friend?  Like what?

Perhaps she mallets him into the ground without hearing his side of a story
first?

Maybe she assumes that a situation is his fault, even when there is direct
visual evidence to the contrary...

Ah!  Zen knows!  She assumes that he's making out with the purple haired
amazon despite the fact that the AMAZON glomped HIM right in front of her
eyes, and his obvious struggles to escape.

Damn... no... that's not it...

Of course!  She's always angry with him!

Nope, dammit...

Mmmm...  She sells pictures of him, and charges him for hot or cold water
instead of giving him free food?

No...

Drat...

Hmmm... maybe she calls him names and tells him that she doesn't care who
gets him, even as she beats the snot out of him for transgressions, real or
imagined?

Not that either, huh?

<think think... think...> Ah!  Sou!  She blames him for all her problems,
and tries constantly to kill him, while sleeping with his fiancee!

Oh... no... not that... bother.

Gosh... could it be that she gave up her vendetta against him 'cause he
called her cute?

No... that doesn't make sense either...

Damn.

Zen gives up.  What is this evidence that Ucchan is not Ranma's friend?

Read his post again.  He stated that you critisized _other people's_
characterization on a regular basis, not his in particular.  Do you
really care to dispute that charge?

I would admit to "other PERSON." Namely, Zen. And I'm not the only one.
Nick himself once admitted to having had an OOC complaint *every* time
he pre-read one of Zen's fics.

Oh?  Zen does not remember that... Zen remembers some OOC complaints from
Nick, but not constant ones.  And a good number of the complaints there
*were* went away with only minor modifications to scenes.

Zen makes no claims for perfect characterisaation... however, Zen *does*
make an effort to keep characters within the bounds set by the canon, OR
within bounds set by LOGICAL extrapolation, given canonical references as a
starting point.

That said, Zen freely admits that his interpretation of cannon may not
agree with yours... and beloved Ucchan is as good an example as any.

First of all, from your criticism of Mr. Kyle's fic, one could easily
get the impression that you think that something shouldn't be shown in
a fic unless it can be conclusively proven. (ie. Ukyou and Ranma being
"best friends".)

Oh, bull. I have NEVER advocated this kind of Guy Under the Bridge
stance, and I'm on record against it. BTW, why weren't you up in arms
over Gubby's criticism of Lawson? Because it didn't unvolve Ukyo?

Hurm.... again, you bring up Ukyou... if one were paranoid, one might think
that you didn't like her or something...

Fortunately, Zen knows better. ^_^

Now, you criticized Bitter End in a post you made to RAAF a few months
back.  Among other things, you stated that it featured a friendship
between Ranma and Ukyou that wasn't present in the manga.  Well,
assuming, for the sake of an argument, that this is true, we still
have the fact that the situation between Ranma, Akane, and Ukyou had
changed to what it was in the manga, and changed in such a way to make
such a friendship more likely.  Clearly, then, it can be inferred from
this that you believe that characters are not allowed to change in
response to changing circumstances.

I criticized Long and Winding Road for claiming a Ranma/Ukyo friendship
DURING the manga. Admittedly, it may have been erroneous of me to lump
BE into the same category, but I still stand by my other criticisims of
that story.

Well... as for the Ranma/Ukyou friendship, you have yet to prove to Zen's
satisfaction that Ukyou is any less a friend to Ranma than anyone else...
most notably the hammer happy harridan you're so enamoured of.  Certainly
there's a stronger case for Ukyou being Ranma's friend than there is for
Ryouga being his friend... but no one ever seems to have a problem with
THAT interpretation.

Sorry, but that dog won't hunt.

Now, before some damned fool turns this into another 'Ranma's Best Babe'
thread, Zen'll say that Zen has read a LOT of Ranma fiction, and that,
frankly, Zen has read very enjoyable stories that have Ranma wind up with
EACH of his fiancees, and some that have him end up with completely new
people.  While Ukyou wins in Zen's fics, Zen is quite capable of enjoying
interpretaions of the characters that pair him with other people.

Frankly, this whole IC/OOC issue is starting to wear thin.  Everybody who
looks at the characters sees them in a slightly different light... and will
interpret their behaviour in different ways as a result.

It seems absurd to Zen to get dogmatic over what amounts to fairly trivial
differences where there is so little 'canonical' evidence in EITHER
direction.

What Zen will say, is that character issues aside, Zen tends to enjoy most
the stories that have a lot of the AUTHOR in them.  No, Zen does NOT,
repeat NOT mean the dreaded 'Self Insertion' fics.  Zen means a fic where
the author put a piece of his or her heart and soul into what they wrote
because they CARED about it... and the characters in it.

THAT is what makes a good fic... what makes a character believable in Zen's
eyes, even if the extrapolation from canon seems a little far fetched.
It's what Zen loves about Nick's stories, and others, like Perry-san's
'Hearts of Ice', and your stories too, Gary.  Without some measure of that,
no matter how true tot he manga characters a story may be, it will be flat,
and lifeless.

So, say what you want about IRIS, or Preludes, or any of them... if the
author didn't invest any time or effort in them, neither will Zen.  If they
did, then Zen will tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Gary Kleppe
http://www.execpc.com/~kleppe/comics

Zen no Itan-sha
Apprentice to the Angels of the Apocalypse