Subject: [spamish kinda thingy] Re: [FFML] 'I have an idea' blah blah blah
From: dokushinsha@juno.com (Kevin Yee)
Date: 5/27/1998, 6:06 PM
To: ffml@fanfic.com
CC: EternalLostLurker@worldnet.att.net

<damn, I really hate the fact that these damn carrot brackets make the
email look like it's been through the shredder unless you fix 'em up by
hand.  I gotta get a better email service (meaning not a free one)>

On Wed, 27 May 1998 12:58:25 -0500 "The Eternal Lost Lurker"
<EternalLostLurker@worldnet.att.net> writes:
I was going to be silent on this, although I 
definitely agree with the original rant, but...

I know, I know, you justify it by saying 'I can't do 
enough justice to the fic so I'm unselfishly giving 
it off to some better fanfic writer'.

And it's rightly justified, at that.  IMO, it's not so 
much unselfishly "giving" the idea away, but 
letting a more skilled and accomplished
author do a better job with it.  I'd rather pass a 
fic off to say Lurker, Gary, or anyone else who's 
fics I enjoy reading than write it myself, because 
I know that compared to my writing, theirs are 
much cleaner, easier to understand, and much 
more appealing.  And even if a less skilled 
writer were to pick up the idea, the originator 
of the idea shouldn't really complain because 
he/she put out the idea for public consumption 
(right word?).

Of course, you forget a few things here:

1. If it's your idea, you're the only one who 
knows where you originally intended to go with 
it. I'm not picking on Radler here, but I have a 
valid example: Faux Existence. I gave it up and 
handed it off after a length of time during which 
only a small portion had been written. I know 
where I would have gone with the next part of
the fic if I had continued writing it, and Radler's 
version of FE is taking a completely different 
direction. That's fine, it's his fic now and I could 
care less. But the point remains: the person 
who comes up with something is the only one 
who really knows where they want it to go.

But of course, that's assuming the person who came up with the idea has
an inkling of where he/she wants to go with it.  Most of my ideas (sorry,
I can only draw from personal experience) are merely extremely basic
ones, and no thought is given to what direction I'd want the idea to go.


2. It's all fine and good to say "Oh, I'll pass this 
along so maybe Lawson or Lurker or Bailesu 
or someone will pick it up"...

Doesn't work that way, folks.

Why not? Because most of us already have 
more to do than we can handle. 

Take my backload for instance. I've got fics 
sitting in my 'hiatus' and 'cancelled' folders that 
I started back in 96. I gave up on them because 
I found better ideas to carry, and most of them 
I've tossed out to the list in case some green 
author with the will but no ideas might want to 
pick up on one. That's in addition to recent, 
better stuff I've done...a week doesn't pass that 
I don't get asked "When are you writing more 
Onna?" or "Where's the next chapter of Nibun 
no Senshi Sailormoon?" The other seasoned, 
well-read authors probably deal with even more 
of it than I do, especially the slower ones like
Zen ^_^. We have more than enough on our 
plates already, we can't pile on something 
someone else came up with on a whim. Well, 
we *can*, but it does tend to invite lynching...

Heh.  Get the lynch mobs ready, boys and girls.  Anyway, I defer to your
opinion on this as I have no real idea the amount of fics you more
experienced authors have to deal with (but I have a good idea).


There's also this: Someone who comes up with 
an idea *should* at *LEAST* attempt to write a 
little bit of it. You're missing out on the best part 
of the fanfiction process if you don't at least try to
write. Oh sure, you get the satisfaction of 
reading it and C&Cing it if someone else 
eventually decides to write it, but it's the writing
in itself that's the best part of the whole deal. 

Believe me, I've tried.  I've tried and tried and tried, but all I come
out with is cr*p.  A disjointed idea here, slapped together with an
overused plot device here, and basically what I end up with is... well,
you know.  So for me, writing ISN'T the best part of the ff process,
reading and providing intelligent (I hope) commentary for fanfics is. 
I'm sure this won't stop me from trying to write every once in a while,
but I sure as hell won't stop putting ideas out because I know there's
some green author out there waiting for ideas.

Passing an idea off to another author should 
only be done under two circumstances:

(1) You know a *specific* author who would be 
more suited to the idea than yourself, and 
might put a spin on it you never considered.
(2) You've written a bit, but you've locked up on 
it. You just can't coax anything decent out of it.

Only two?  What if you can't really see a way in which the idea can be
taken any further than your original one?  Or what if you know were you
to try writing it (due to past experience), you'd just mangle the idea? 
I know that's happened to me lots of times.  Unless I have a very good
idea of how I want the whole story to go, I never attempt writing one,
and they all still turn out like (say it with me)... you know.


And if you don't like that "excuse", then what's 
wrong with the "I just don't have time" one?  
I've got all of a few hours a night once I start
working to spend on the list, fanfics, the net, 
etc., and I'd much rather spend it reading fics 
than writing one.  If an interesting enough
idea were to come to mind, I'd write it myself 
(in fact, I've done so once). But if I don't really 
feel like writing it, but if I feel someone else
might want to write it, I'll put it on the list.

Oh right, the ol' "I just don't have time" excuse. 

^_^ I have a sense you've heard this before, Lurker-san.


I have 3.25MB of fics from the FFML taking up 
space in my hard drive, dating back as far as 
December in some cases, that I haven't even 
so much as glanced at. 

I have a pile of new anime videos sitting on the 
floor in front of my television that I haven't 
watched yet.

I have a pile of Godzilla flicks I haven't watched yet.

I have a pile of manga I haven't read yet. 

I haven't taken a 48 hour nap in a while. 

*sob*  I wish I could do this one day (err, two days).  Damn finals
anway.  Who needs 'em?


Bye-bye, everyone. I won't be writing anymore for 
six months or so. I've got too many videos to 
watch and too much manga to read, and too
many fanfics to read, and then I'll have even 
more stuff to do to keep me from writing.

I don't think so. I enjoy writing too much. That's 
why I put everything else on hold to do it as 
much as possible. 

Granted, I have more free time than most others...I 
know some of the best authors around here have 
college, jobs, etc etc. and don't get nearly as much 
time to write as they'd like. But if you're using time
as an excuse...

I think if you were to read what I said, you'd realize I'm not so much
using time as an excuse but saying I'd PREFER to read rather than write. 
My exact words were "I'd much rather spend it (time) reading fics than
writing one."


If you don't want to write, just say so. If all you like 
to do is read 'em, there's no shame in that. But 
don't make up bullshit excuses about it. Just say 
"I don't like writing, but I have this idea, so if 
someone who likes to write wants to try it, I'd love 
to read it when you get done." 

Umm, again, read what I said.  My exact words were " But if I don't
really feel like writing it, but if I feel someone else might want to
write it, I'll put it on the list."  I don't really think that's a
"bullshit excuse", ne?  And the only reason I brought up time is because
there IS a lack of free time in my life, and like I said, I'd rather use
it to read fics than write them.


Look at, oh, say, Scriviner. He frantically put out 
what he finished with Loveletters on the Edge 
because he was afraid of someone else coming 
out with a fic with a concept that was too close 
for comfort (his comfort). Then, when it came out, 
he could proudly say 'I was first'.

And how much novelty will come with being 
the first?  Given a few weeks or a month, I'm 
sure there will be numerous fics based on 
the same idea if it's a good one.  And after a 
while, who's going to know if Scriviner's fic is 
the first one if someone's improved on the 
idea and put out a better fic?

Hmmm...I wouldn't neccessarily say that. It all 
depends on what you're doing. There's a huge 
difference between "easily conceived" and 
"creatively original". 

For instance, Lawson's "Thy Inward Love". Easily conceived? Yes. The
idea of Ranma continuation stories has been done dozens of different
ways. Creatively original? Yes. Lawson took a now-common origin point
for a story, and crafted a masterpiece, even setting up a sequel
that, while taking a different flavor than the original, was an
equally enjoyable read.

The analysis: The idea has been, and will be, used over and over
again, but nobody's going to approach the same quality level of
Lawson's work, much less improve upon it.

Zen's "The Bitter End". Easily conceived? No. Not many people could
realistically look upon the Ranmaverse that way without having the
idea planted in their head first. Creatively original? Yes. Zen did
an incredible job of making the characters and situations come alive
in realistic and very disturbing ways.

The analysis: There will probably never be another "The Bitter End",
because its very conception was a master stroke.

Krista Perry's "Hearts of Ice". Easily conceived? No. Epics are
particularly special fanfics, because there really isn't much chance
of two epics going in the same direction. You can have similar
elements, maybe even similar situations, but epics can rarely ever be
compared to one another. Creatively original? Yes. Krista-san is
playing around with Japanese mythology, which most North American
fanfic writers are reluctant to touch if they can avoid it, out of
lack of knowledge. The end result is quite remarkable, creating vivid
worlds and scenery that bring the story to life, as well as giving
life to the characters, not always the easiest thing to
do--especially when you're tossing in new characters that nobody (or
very few people) will recognize. 

The analysis: It's an epic, a hell of a good one at that, so even a
similar story will never match or exceed it. 

My own "Onna: Red Side". Easily conceived? That's debatable. The idea
of the soul of the drowned girl existing within Ranma, and even the
idea of the drowned girl being a character from another anime, has
certainly been done before, and will be done again. However, turning
a drowned-girl-soul story into an epic has really only been done
twice that I'm aware of: "Song of the Phoenix" and "Onna: Red Side".
Most drowned-girl-soul stories either end up as otherwise normal
Ranma fare, or else fade away before they can become something
extraordinary. Or, in the case of "Half a Sorceress", they become an
alternate-reality type story...most of the events go more or less the
same way, with some differences here and there, but the main focus is
on the relationship between Ranma and the drowned girl. Creatively
original? I'd like to think so. All epics have to be fairly original,
and their writers fairly creative, to write something that isn't a
clone of an existing work..and epics are difficult to clone in any
case. I work hard to blend Takahashi elements with CLAMP elements,
and a few other things thrown in here and there (Remember Karuma from
the battle with Skylark? Think Dragonball Z...and then of course,
there's the sentai Mashin squad the Nerima bunch wound up with...),
and from both my own opinion when rereading it, and the opinions of
everyone else who's read and commented on it, I seem to be doing
something right. At any rate, it's the only Ranma/MKR crossover of
its kind...that I'm aware of...

The analysis? I'm not qualified to analyze my own work. I'll let
someone else do it. 

(Gah...let's hope I don't get this long-winded at A-Kon...O_o)

Hehe.  Sorry, I gave up on revising that section.  But I stand corrected
on the point that being the first to come up with an idea won't guarentee
popularity.  Lurker-san's examples of "The Bitter End", "Hearts of Ice",
"Onna: Red Side", and "Song of the Pheonix" as original ideas that
brought fame are obviously correct.  My apologies.


Now, before you post something like 'what if Sailor 
Moon met the Power Rangers' and 'I'm too lazy to 
write it', WRITE IT.

Hmm, and what about the people that actually 
WANT to pick up ideas off the list and run with 
it?  If someone goes ahead and puts out an
idea, saying, "Someone go and write this, 
since I'm too lazy," what's wrong with that?  
It annoys you?  

Again, posting ideas is fine, as long as they're 
ideas you've already tried to write and failed, or 
at least as long as you don't try to give an excuse. 
"No time" and "too lazy" are excuses. Be honest. 
Say "I don't want to write."

While "no time" and "too lazy" are excuses, they are also reasons that DO
stop some people from writing.  *shrug*  It might not be reasons/excuses
that you like, but regardless, they're not always lies.


Or maybe you're just too scared of negative feedback?

Again, why should this be any concern of yours?  
Some people are comfortable with receiving 
ridicule, and some aren't.  Is it BAD to be scared 
of this?  You show a surprising lack of sensitivity 
towards some of the newer writers, TimeRunner.  
Or are you just trying to goad some of them into 
writing?  Either way, this sure isn't working.

I do agree with Yee-san on this point. TimeRunner 
was needlessly sarcastic with that particular comment.

...

Boy, if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black...^_^;;

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---
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...gettin' ficcy wit' it...
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