----------
:From: Nicholas Leifker <nwl9354@unix.tamu.edu>
:To: David Homerick <dhomeric@jps.net>
:CC: fanfic@fanfic.com, sterman@sprynet.com
:Subject: Re: [FFML] [Fanfic]  The Next Cycle
:Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 00:52:23 -0600
:
:David Homerick wrote:

:
:To show you, I've decided to C&C your C&C.  Unlike you, I've decided to
:cut the irrelevant parts here.  

Fair enough -- I'll respond.

Note, though, that my comments were added as I went through the story.  In
many ways, they are a log of my response to the story.  Yes, I did get flip.
 I *felt* flip -- the story was heavy-handed and lachymorose.

:> :From: Richard Lawson <sterman@sprynet.com>



:> :The Next Cycle
:> :
:> :by Richard Lawson
:> :
:> :sterman@sprynet.com
:> :
:> :He makes a small sound of pleasure, between a sigh and a groan, and it
:> :fills her with such warmth, to know that he enjoys her touch as much as
:> :she enjoys his.
:> 
:> Um... yeah.  So.  They're in love.
:
:Flippant - unless you've never known what it is to love someone, in
:which case it's ignorant.

Richard has spent the last three paragraphs establishing that they were in
love.

:> :She chuckles, because she knows he is trying to be cute.  He thinks he
:> :is quite funny, and sometimes he is, and sometimes he isn't.  She loves
:> :that about him, loves that he treats life in such a carefree manner,
:> :and tries to put humor in everything around him.
:> 
:> "I love it that you aren't as funny as you think you are."
:
:Flippant, though I'm beginning to suspect the ignorance more... after
:all, this is how lovers *act* during the romance stage of a
:relationship.  

It's the essence of the paragraph, distilled into a sentence.  It sounds
silly when put that way, doesn't it?  It's a silly comment, despite the
positive spin.

:> 
:> :He put humor in *her*; she was so serious and fearful before he came
:> :into her life.  Before he *became* her life, before he put life into
:> :her.  He notes that it has been eighteen months since they have been
:> :married, but she counts time differently; it has been thirty-five
:> :months since they met, thirty-five months since her life began.
:> 
:> Remember, girls, life begins when you meet your man.
:
:The comment, while flippant, does make a nice point about possible
:sexism. Clarify your opinion on the subject and state it professionally,
:either in place of the flippancy or after the flippant comment.

If you want a professional opinion, you should probably pay someone.  These
are the reactions of a reader.  I think my point was sufficiently clear.  

:> 
:> :She cannot stand it anymore, and stops.  He stops with her, and they
:> :seem to melt into each other her lips on his, the feel of his body
:> :pressed to hers, it stills feels as wonderful as it did the first time.
:> : This kiss goes on and on, a reminder of passions past, a taste of
:> :passion yet to come.
:> 
:> I take it back.  They're not in love.  They're in Luuuuuvvv.
:
:More flippancy.  And grow up, please.

Richard *continues* to pound on the idea of love, using overwrought language
like "a reminder of passions past etc."

:> :Finally he separates, smiling, sharing with her the private joke that
:> :the physical intimacies of their marriage always start with her, that
:> :she takes him and draws him in.  She acknowledges his observation by
:> :touching the tip of her nose to his and batting her eyes.
:> 
:> What, they're telepaths, now?
:
:If you don't believe in telepathy in a relationship, then you've never
:been in a relationship.  Trust me, it happens.  

I don't believe in telepathy period, and this is an exceedingly complex idea
to be expressed with facial expressions.  


:> :"It's been so wonderful.  Our marriage, I mean.  I want..."  He trails
:> :off, uncertain.
:> :
:> :And her stomach twists and her heart begins to hammer, because she
:> :*knows* what is coming next.  She wants to rewind the clock, to begin
:> :the last minute over and find a way to distract him and forestall the
:> :inevitable, but it is too late.  He is going to ask, and destroy her.
:> 
:> "So... honey... did you buy the milk?
:> 
:> "NOOO! <sob>  I forgot!  Please forgive me!  I'm an unworthy person
:> I'mnotworthyofyourlove...."
:
:Flippant.
:
Yes.  Note Richard's overwrought language in the preceding passage(s).

:> :"I mean... can't we... I... it's time."  He swallows.  "I know you keep
:> :saying not yet, that you're not ready.  But... there's no need to wait.
:> : Both of our jobs are going well, we have some money.  We can...
:> :there's this nice little house I've been looking at..."  He looks
:> :deeply into her eyes.  "Big enough to fill a family with."
:> :
:> :She looks down, not able to meet his gaze.  She can deny him nothing,
:> :she has denied him this for so long.  Here, in this park, by this lake,
:> :at this moment, her life has become heaven and hell all at once, it has
:> :been so all along but never more so than right now.
:> 
:> I take it this means she can't have kids.
:
:Observation - and a correct one.  

No, actually, this is more flippancy.  Richard's flowery language and absurd
"heaven and hell" metaphor attempt to elevate her unfortunate but common
problem into something more ethereal and less... biological.  For me,
however, it backfired, making her look hysterical.

:> :Her eyes begin to burn with unshed tears.  She fights them, for she
:> :will not spoil the moment more than she has to.  "Please, I..."  She
:> :can deny him nothing, she has to deny him this.  "Give... give me some
:> :time to... to think."
:> 
:> This entire scene is ludicrously overwrought.  Lay off the emotional
:> sledgehammer, okay?
:
:Serious commentary (for once).   My response:

:David, I pray you never know what it's like to think you'll never have
:someone to love again, or never have children.  

Thank you.

:I do - every day of my
:life.  Sometimes I look at a child, or the warm glow between two lovers'
:eyes... and it hits me like a sledgehammer, that I will _never_ know
:love like that, or the joy of raising a child.  

Please remember that she has *no idea* if he will hate her for being barren.
 If he loves her as much as Richard insists she does, he will stay with her
even if she can't have kids.  She is panicking about an *imagined*
catastrophe.

:By cheapening such emotions, you have insulted me.  

I'm not the one trying to push your buttons on this issue, pal.

:> :His disappointment hits her like a knife in her heart, she can feel it
:> :in the way he slumps his shoulders ever so slightly, retracts his hands
:> :a fraction of an inch.  He quickly resumes his normal, confident
:> :manner, but she knows the hurt is still there.  "Of course.  Take the
:> :time you need."  He kisses her cheek again, then turns and they begin
:> :walking again, hand in hand.
:> 
:> "Yeesh.  I ask my wife if she wants kids and she acts like I want her to
:> take a bullet for me."
:
:Flippancy.  

Accurate, though.  She *is* overreacting.  

:> :The doctor looks up at her finally.  "I have consulted with some of my
:> :colleagues on your case, and found to my surprise that they knew you
:> :already.  Surely what I am about to say is no surprise."
:> 
:> "You are a deeply neurotic woman.  I recommend counseling."
:
:Possibly a commentary on Ikuko's characterization, though some
:clarification beyond the flippant comment might be in order.  

I realize this is a difficult thing to adjust to, but she has known about
this for *years*, and she's still in denial.  She's conviced her husband
will hate her, despite the "wonderful love" they share.  She seems to be
experiencing mood swings, although this is probably just the result of
Richard's hyperbolic tone.  

:> :"No.  Surely this has been explained to you.  It's congenital, you
:> :see."
:> 
:> So?  "Congential" simply means she was born with it.
:
:Okay, another serious commentary.  That's two out of... how many is
:that?  

They are all "serious," to one degree or another.  I didn't start cracking
jokes until late in the story.

:> :She surges to her feet.  "Thank you, doctor."  She whirls and leaves
:> :the office before she can spend another second looking at the pitying
:> :expression on his face, the sympathy that kills her rather than
:> :comforts her.
:> 
:> Lady... get over yourself.
:
:Gentleman (and I use the term loosely)... get over yourself.  This is
:also flippant, and extremely confusing.  There may be some serious
:statement you may wish to make to the author... but I can't tell.  

"The sympathy that kills her rather than comforts her..."  This is way over
the top, and makes her actions seem self-dramatizing, like she's wallowing
in self-pity.  

(This is, of course, an analysis, done now, of my original reaction.)  

:> 
:> :Adoption.  Adoption is so easy.  It only takes years and years and
:> :hundreds of thousands of yen, but it does happen.  Of course, a family
:> :has to be deemed worthy.  It has to pass certain tests, withstand
:> :extreme scrutiny, be found *clean*...
:> 
:> "And they'll never find me clean!  I'm filthy and disgusting!  I cheated
on
:> that math test in third grade!"
:
:Again, here's another place where you had the opportunity to make a
:good, serious comment, but chose to go for insulting instead.  Is
:Richard being clear with the Burakumin bit?  That's an honest
:question... but you cover it up with cheapening remarks.  

At this point, I have no idea *why* she thinks she can't adopt, but her
generally overwrought portrayal makes me think it's something trivial.  Even
if it isn't, I'm fairly disgusted with the story, and that shows in my
reaction.


:> :A screech of brakes and the honking of a horn cause her to freeze in
:> :her tracks and look.  A car has stopped not more than a foot or two
:> :away.  The driver is shouting at her.  She looks at the woman, then
:> :looks to see the child sitting next to her in the passenger seat.  She
:> :cringes and runs off, runs and runs.  She comes to a bench somewhere,
:> :she doesn't know where, and she falls into it and cries.
:> 
:> "WAAAAAAHHH!"
:
:Flippant.

Yes.  

:> :The doctor was right; she *did* know.  She'd known it from shortly
:> :after her first exam by a gynecologist.  And she had denied it,
:> :pretended it didn't exist, hadn't even told her parents.  The less she
:> :thought about it, the more it didn't exist.  She'd certainly had other
:> :problems to worry about.
:> 
:> Yeah?  Like what?
:
:Almost flippancy, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
:
:Does he need to tell?  Life happens, after all.

Her main problem is that she's afraid her husband will hate her when he
finds out she's barren.  I have no reason to assume this is true and plenty
to assume it isn't.  

:> :She'd begun her quest then, hopping from doctor to doctor, each of them
:> :telling her the wrong thing, the answer that wasn't true.  For she knew
:> :that marriage was only an intermediary step, that beyond it lay another
:> :kind of relationship, one that started with two people and became more.
:> : And she couldn't marry him if it lead nowhere, she knew he'd wanted
:> :more, that his vision of the future included more than just her.
:> 
:> Not that she ASKED him or anything...
:
:Flippant.

She has no idea if he can accept her as she is or not.  She simply assumes
he won't, and that his love is conditioned on her bearing children.  This is
really a disservice to him.

:> :But the time had come when he had asked her, had expressed an epic love
:> :for her, had told her that she was all to him, that wonderment lay in
:> :their future.  And that had been his gift, that words reached in and
:> :touched her, and while he stumbled sometimes over them, he found ways
:> :to slip them past her defenses and into her heart.  And she had found
:> :herself agreeing to marry him, despite her resolve, despite not telling
:> :him.
:> 
:> Silly girl.
:
:(sigh) Flippant.

Accurate.  A very bad decision on her part, and the *direct* cause of her
present unhappiness.


:> :But the excuses were wearing thin, and she couldn't put it off any
:> :more.  Put him off any more.  He would find out, and then he wouldn't
:> :want her, and then her life would leave her.  So she mourned, mourned
:> :the end of happiness, of the lives going and the lives never to come.
:> 
:> You know, Richard, the more you try to pump up the story with overblown
:> prose like that, the more absurd and contemptible this woman seems in
:> comparison.
:
:Okay, honest characterization comment.  Again, she strikes me as a very
:realistic character, right down to the secrets.  

Oh, *realistic,* yes.  There are plenty of troubled, neurotic women.  But I
don't think Richard is trying to make her seem neurotic.  I think he's
trying to make her seem noble.  

:> :"Please."  He leans forward to take her hand.  She takes a step back,
:> :bumping against a table in the living room, the tiny room that they
:> :took such pride in decorating when they first moved in.  He is puzzled
:> :and hurt, and looks at her strangely.
:> 
:> "Why are you acting like Sailor Moon?"
:
:Flippant.

Yes.

:> :She looks up, startled.  He knew?  "You knew?"
:> 
:> "And you didn't tell me?"
:> 
:> "Naah.  I thought I'd let you stew in your own juice for a while."
:
:I am curious... what point were you trying to make?  

I'm pointing out that his *not* telling her he knows his secret looks like
"payback" for her keeping it in the first place.  She's troubled.  He could
ease her mind by telling her that he knows her secret and doesn't mind.  He
does not do so.  How would you explain it?

:> 
:> :He smiles gently.  "Before we were married, my father ran a check.  He
:> :confronted it with me the day before the wedding.  He thought that
:> :would put an end to things."  He shook his head.  "Father knew so
:> :little of how much I loved you.  I couldn't care less if some
:> :narrow-minded people - like my father - consider you 'unclean'.
:> 
:> Burakumin!  I get it now!
:
:Okay.  Another legitamate problem!  Boyo doesn't realize about burakumin
:until later!  Now... why didn't you state it PROFESSIONALLY before?

Why should I?   I gave a run-through of my responses, and this is where I
realized the problem.  Unfortunately, it turns out to be a red herring.

Need I remind you that I am not a professional?

:> 
:> :It  means nothing to me.  You... you mean everything to me."
:> :
:> :She gapes, her emotions a whirl.  He had it wrong, he had gotten it
:> :wrong, that wasn't it at all, oh please...
:> 
:> No?  What, then?
:
:Apparently you haven't been reading the story very well (or you were too
:busy making the comments above).  After all, what's the secret she's
:been angsting over for the entire story?  

One which pales in comparison to this "Burakumin" revelation.  This might
have been a reasonable cause for her panic, but she only seems to conceive
(no pun intended) of it as a complicating factor in her barrenness.  Very
strange.

:> 
:> :"Please don't feel bad that you didn't tell me," he goes on,
:> :misunderstanding her expression.  "I knew that you were probably scared
:> :to tell me at first because I might want to have nothing to do with
:> :you.  And then you didn't want to tell me because you thought I'd be
:> :upset that you withheld it from me."  He reaches out to her, not quite
:> :touching her, an invitation.  "It doesn't matter, love.  Only you
:> :matter, the person you are, the love we have.  Let's move beyond this.
:> : Our children will have no taint, I'll make sure of that."
:> 
:> Now we're getting weird.
:
:Howso?  

You can't remove the "taint" of being Burakumin.  It's entirely a social
problem.  In fact, the sentence made me wonder  if her husband really *did*
despise burakumin.

:> :She stands up, takes a step, then falls to her knees again, the water
:> :soaking through her skirt.  She cannot do it.  It is wrong, and even if
:> :she knows all about committing sin, she can always hope to keep from
:> :committing more sin than necessary.  No more sins, sins are evil, she
:> :has already caused too much evil, she will not cause more.  If there is
:> :any lesson to be learned, it's that she must sin no more.
:> 
:> BZZZT!   These are explicitly Christian thoughts, and Christians are a
tiny
:> minority in Japan.  If you want to establish that this character is
:> Christian, this is the wrong way to go about it.
:
:Okay, more legitimate commentary.  This is Richard's call here; perhaps
:he felt the thoughts IC.  

If she were a Christian, why would she accept the messianic talk from
Serenity?  

:> :It is a nice resolve.  She tries to hold onto it.  Perhaps it will
:> :become the basis for her new life, the life that will no longer have
:> :him in it.
:> 
:> She's STILL being silly.
:
:And you're STILL being flippant.  Don't you see how these negative
:comments turn your commentary off from the writer, rendering it
:useless?  After all, if you show nothing but contempt for his ideas, why
:should he show anything but contempt for yours?  

If I feel contempt for his main character, why should I hide it?  I have
expressed no contempt for Richard personally.

:> :And then a strange kind of peace settles over her.  There is something,
:> :a presence, that enters her and speaks soothing words.  "Be at ease,
:> :dear.  Oh my, you feel so strongly and deeply.  Such love in your soul,
:> :causing you such pain.  It should not be so."
:> 
:> I hope this isn't going where I thing it's going.
:
:Random comment.

I'm starting to get an inkling of who this person is.  Richard wanted to
know when that happened.

:> :The presence sends silvery laughter along her mind, tinged with
:> :sadness.  "Thank you, dear, for your consideration.  You are kind.  And
:> :wise and strong.
:> 
:> I beg to differ.
:
:Flippant comment, as you've already made your comments about Ikuko's
:characterization.  

I felt like making it again.  You don't seem to think that a log of a
reader's responses are worth anything.  I think they are.

:> :"To bear my daughter."
:> 
:> Well, this does explain where Sailor Moon gets her sappy stupidity.
:
:Flippant comment.

It's also where I pegged who the protagonist was.

:
:> :"To have my child.  The evil that destroyed my kingdom and nearly
:> :devoured the world is rising again.  It is time to bring for the
:> :Warriors once again.  Most importantly, my daughter must live again to
:> :lead them and save the world and bring it once more to paradise.  But
:> :it must all begin with you."
:> 
:> "Blessed art thou among women.  Thou shalt bring forth a daughter, and
thou
:> shalt call her name Usagi.  And she shall be whiny and insipid, and she
:> shall someday rule the world.  HAHAHAHAHA!  Ooops..."
:
:Okay, this is a flippant comment, but it also contains some serious
:commentary.  After all, this does have some parallels to Mary's
:visitation by Gabriel in the bible.  

:However, does an author want to waste his time by trying to cut through
:the insults to get to the serious comments?  In other words, your
:insults have rendered anything serious you may have to say about the
:work useless.

I *never once* insulted Richard.  *Never*.  

:> :She thinks that perhaps the presence has found the wrong person, and
:> :her nascent hope begins to fade.  "I, know nothing of battles or
:> :fighting.  I... I'm not sure I could teach her those things."
:> 
:> "Hell, I don't even have the courage to tell my husband I'm barren."
:
:More flippancy.  

Perfectly accurate.  How can I accept Serenity's praise of her courage when
I have seen her do nothing but flee from her problems? 

:> :The presence laughs again, and this time it is tinged with affection.
:> : "It is not the tactics of war she needs to learn.  Others will guide
:> :her in that respect.  No she must overcome her obstacles the same way
:> :you overcame yours:  with love."
:> 
:> "Point?  Hello?  I've just run *away* from my problems."
:
:Still a little flippant, but contains a serious comment.  My response:
:
:You weren't reading - you were too busy insulting.  Ikuko decided to
:live, and to tell her husband everything.  She just *knew*, however,
:that he'd leave her because of it.  That isn't running away from her
:problems - it's going back to them.

She backs away from suicide through what looks like religious fear.  She
resolves to go back -- but resolutions are cheap, and she doesn't act on it.
 She doesn't have to -- Serenity pulls her chestnuts out of the fire. 

:> :"Dear, you must understand."  The voice is more serious now.  "My -
:> :*our* - daughter will be in danger when she comes into her power.  She
:> :will constantly be under attack, and will know few moments of peace.
:> : While I want you to be there to give support, guidance, and love, you
:> :must not interfere.  You must not do anything to keep her from her
:> :finding and fulfilling her destiny.  It may squeeze your heart to see
:> :her in danger of her life.  But, if what I have seen here is any
:> :indication, it will not *break* your heart.  You must show the strength
:> :you showed tonight during the times to come, and let our daughter do
:> :what needs to be done."
:> 
:> "Yeah.  Yeah, I showed *strength* tonight.  Yeah, that's it."
:
:More flippancy.
:
:And yes, she did.  

She did not.  She backed away from suicide due to *fear*, and her resolution
was filled with self-dramatization.

:> :The presence fills her strongly, and its words resonate throughout her.
:> : "Can you accept this?"
:> :
:> :She wants to blurt out the answer but pauses for a moment.  What the
:> :voice says sounds like it would be difficult.  Maybe even hellish.  She
:> :tries to imagine a daughter charging into battle, and her mind cringes
:> :at the thought.
:> 
:> She was used to that, however, as her mind cringed at every thought.
:
:More flippancy; however, is he repeating those words?  

No... just a comment on her lack of courage.

:> :And she does, for the first she really does.  She thinks that if she
:> :had told this man her secret, he would have stayed with her.  For the
:> :first time, she really trusts his love in a way she never allowed
:> :herself to do before.  And, amazingly her love for him grows, which she
:> :had not thought possible.
:> 
:> Fanfic writers, remember this:  If your main characters are in love, you
:> must constantly remind your readers of this fact.  Otherwise, they will
:> forget.
:
:Serious comment.  My response:

And flippant.

:Aw, let him have it.  Jeez... it's not like Ikuko and Kenji would hate
:each other after sixteen years of marriage...

"Love" is a trigger word -- a word that tends to elicit an emotional
response in the reader.  Repeating trigger words can elicit strong emotional
responses in a reader -- or turn a reader off completely.  It's generally
considered a cheap trick.

( A few more cut out... they really were just jokes.)

:> 
:> :She will surely win because
:> :of the strong love you and your husband gave her.  My undying thanks.
:> : And love."
:> :
:> :She smiles, letting the voice know that the gratitude and love are
:> :reciprocated.
:> 
:> The secret to a popular fanfic is to use the word "love" as many times as
is
:> humanly possible.
:
:Hokay... what comment are you trying to make here?

I think I already explained it.

:> 
:> :Then she goes inside to begin the cycle anew.
:> 
:> "And what drippy twit, her hour come round at last,
:> Slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"
:
:Hokay... this left vapor trails...

A reference to  "The Second Coming" by W.B. Yeats.

:> -- David.