Richard "I am Not Nouma" Lawson wrote:

My problem is that they shouldn't be called revengefics.  They should
be called otaku wish-fulfillment fics.  Truth in advertising and all
that.  I got a little ticked because I wrote a *true* revengefic - I
would *not* want to be the me described in that story.  No one else
did.  They wrote themselves in fun adventures, doing what they always
wanted to do, becoming female for the most part.

You DO keep harping on that point... ^_^

So call a spade a spade and label them self-insertion fics, but don't
call them revengefics unless it's *real* revenge.  *Not* "please don't
throw me in that briar patch!" type of revenge, either.  Real, "Oh God,
please, don't let that happen to me!"

<Richard sits back and waits for the rationalizing to begin.>

Rationalising?  Hardly.

As Zen has said, when he joined the Revenge Fic parade this time last year,
he did so on the spirit of fun - in the same vein, after a fashion, as
"Sauce" had been written, though, perhaps, with less of a grounding in
reality.

Sometimes Zen thinks you are just sore because you wrote something nasty
while everyone else was having fun. ^_^

Seriously though, as Zen has *also* said, your point is *quite* valid.  Zen
is perfectly willing to admit to an element of wish fulfillment in his
Revenge stories.

^_^  Now, truly I don't get worked up over other so-called revengefics.
The above is just a very minor quibble, is all, and is presented all
in good fun.

After all, the original fic that spawned the whole mess (Sauce,
by Scott K Jamison, aka SKJAM!) was, while a charmingly original
reversal of the otaku-fic genre, still wish fulfillment itself.

This is quite true, actually, and something I noticed myself.  However,
Frosty's call was for true revenge.  Not "Sauce" clones.

Perhaps it was.  Zen does not remember.  Zen was writing it because Zen was
trying to have some fun.  After all, Zen was in the middle of writing
"Winding Road" episode one, and the better part of "Bitter End" had already
been plotted out.  Zen needed something a little lighter.

When the Revenge Wars saga started afterwards, Zen joined that too, in a
spirit of fun.  And it has been fun.  LOTS of fun.  It's a creative group
that is working on this project.  While it may never be high literature,
the stories that some of these people are putting together are at least as
good as anything that Weiss and Hickman ever wrote.  Zen is pleased that
they let him play in the game too.  They work well together.

But, to address your point.  Even if a fic *IS* wish fulfillment, that does
not mean that it has to work out well.  An almost constant theme in wish
related literature is the wish that goes wrong - the wisher that did not
think through the consequences of what they wanted.  In that light, even
the wish fulfillment stories CAN be true revenges.  Given time. ^_^

While Zen chose not to go down a path quite that dark when joining the
Revenge Wars, that possibility was there.

Zen has now written it.  It is not long.  Zen will post it on the 31st,
when you post yours.  In the meantime, Zen will post his original two
Revenge pieces.  If you like the dark, wait a week, you'll have it. If you
like the fun, read the Revenge Wars.  It gets silly in places, serious in
others, but all in all, it has been a hell of a lot of fun.

THAT is the legacy that Zen chose to take from "Sauce" - but if you want
dark, you shall have it, sir, you shall have it! ^_^  Just, as Zen once
told Kun-chan, 'Be careful what you wish for.' ^_^

Ja ne!

Zen no Itan-sha