I only put this to the list in order to clarify a few things (Ukyou
and Ranma's morals are fairly important to fanfic, after all); 
however, unless someone REALLY wants it here (as I beleive it is
technically off-topic); I would ask that Don reply to me via e-mail
by now on.  If anyone's interested, we'll give a joint post of what
the results are when we finish.

Chris McNeil wrote:

-Ranma promised Ukyou TWICE to marry her, of his own free will.  Once
when they were children, once when adults.  The child time he didn't
quite know what he was promising, but the second time he DID.

	Okay.  I just happened to review the story a while ago.

You didn't review it closely enough, to be blunt.

	First of all, Ranma never did promise Ukyou to marry her in the Ten
Year Sauce Story the first time.  He cannot promise to someone that he
doesn't even know is a girl.  He just agrees to take care of her for 

the

Yes he did.  He didn't know it, but Ukyou didn't know HE didn't know,
and that WAS what she asked.  I said "he didn't know what he was 
promising", and this is true, but he promised nonetheless, and Ukyou
thought later he was trying to uphold that promise.

rest of her life, and he doesn't know this means that he'll marry her. 
To him, he never did promise to marry Ukyou, because he didn't know
Ukyou was a girl back then.

To him, yes.  To Ukyou, no.  And she has little/no reason to beleive
otherwise.

	The 2nd time he did promise, though he never said marry her.  He said
he'll live up to his promise to take care of her for life.  His 

attitude

And what else, precisely, DOES that mean?  Do tell.

seemed strictly compensatory and conciliatory, a way to get Ukyou off

The hell he did.  His thought was "Now I know how to get out of this!"
He cared about as much about Ukyou as he generally does about anyone 
besides himself, and Akane, which is to say virtually not at all.

his back for the moment.  It's pretty similar to that when he said that
he and Akane are getting married in the same story.  Again, such
measures are improvised to deal with the situation.  It's not unlike 

the

And not thought through, and hurt everyone involved.

time he told Ukyou she was cute, because he really wouldn't want 

someone

to be chasing after him for the rest of his life.  You probably 

wouldn't

want to, either.

If I sat down and said I'd take my medicine, I'd do it.  At any rate,
if _I_ had been the one in the same situation as that, I wouldn't
have been so STUPID as to get INTO the same situation as Ranma.  But
if Ranma wasn't stupid, than Ranma 1/2 would be much shorter...

	Ranma had essentially two choices.  He could act mean toward Ukyou, or
he could hang around Akane.  He knew he couldn't do the latter.  He
tried to tell Ukyou the truth, but Ukyou didn't believe him.  And she

With good reason.

pretended to cry to get Ranma to sympathize with her.  You see that in
her thought bubbles:  "Crying sure is useful!"	

Not exactly; she said she ought to try it more often, and the tone of
the sentence doesn't indicate it was necessarily faking.  Ranma, as
far as she knew, had slept with Akane or at least in her room, and
you don't think that actually DID hurt her?

	So basically Ukyou made the situation impossible for Ranma.  Ranma

RANMA made the situation impossible for Ranma, which included the fact
that some of his actions and lies led Ukyou to the wrong conclusions.

tried to tell her the truth so she'd leave, but she didn't want to hear
the truth.  Do you really expect the poor boy to do what Akane 

suggests,

He told the truth AFTER his actions, and more importantly AKANE'S
actions, pointed directly at the conclusion Ukyou reached: Akane
was forcing Ranma to say it.  And everything that happened in that
story reinforced that conclusion.  So I ask you: why SHOULD Ukyou
have taken that story at face value?  Why was her conclusion not
the most logical one IN LIGHT OF THE FACTS SHE IS AWARE OF?

just be close to her?  Those two communicate poorly, and it is evident
that the plan for them to pretend to be married was doomed from the
start.  The alternative, which is to persuade Ukyou to leave, is 

blocked

because Ukyou didn't want to hear the truth.  What other choice did he
had?

Say: "I'm very sorry, Ucchan, but I love Akane.  I hope you can forgive
me."  When they asked him to make a choice, if nowhere else, although
he should have done it in Volume 9.

-Ranma did this because he did not want to make a choice between 

Akane

and Ukyou (they had previously tried to force him to choose); Ranma
decided the preferably alternative was...well, let me give it to you
in fem-boy's own words:

	Like I said above, what other choice do you propose?

Right there.  That is a choice I could actually respect him for making;
with the one person who is very likely to (painfully) accept it.

	The best and most logical choice, telling Ukyou the truth so she'll
leave, is rendered impossible because she doesn't want to hear the 

truth

and doesn't want to leave.

"Doesn't want to hear the truth"...cute way of phrasing it, which I
note you replay extremely often.  I also note you deliberately left
out the little fact that everything Ukyou had seen pointed directly
at the conclusion she did draw.

	Knowing Ranma, he can't possibly pretend he is close with Akane.  Even
though he may love her, they still don't get along well.

So what?  This excuses him?  The man has a RESPONSIBILITY.  He shirks
it.  There is no excuse, and with Ukyou it is worse than the other
two, and in this story even more so.  He owes Ukyou-and Akane-the
truth, not the endless string of lies he's fed them through the whole
damn series.

And, I might add, he tried to implement this plan.  First, he tried 

to

do so by throwing away her cooking and calling it 'slop'; foiled by
the quick reflexes of everyone else at the Tendo table.  He also 

bought

booze, dumped it over himself, and tried to feign drunkeness as he 

came

home and beat up Ukyou; this didn't work because she gave her
patented cure for drunkeness by splashing him with ice water.  Third,
he tried to put lipstick on his clothes, but Ukyou caught him (in
female form) in the process of doing so.  Finally, he went to spend
the night in Akane's room, calling her his lover.  This almost 

worked,

except that Ukyou eavesdropped and got the impression (due to what
was said and what had happened earlier, a quite reasonable one) that
Akane was forcing Ranma to do all these things.  Ranma's next plan
was to treat her like Akane (in other words, insult her), but this
was cut short because Ukyou, in an attempt to prove her devotion, had
drank some of the horrible okonomiyaki sauce that was the root of the
mess and gotten sick.

	And, I might add, the humor of the story is that he can't act mean
toward Ucchan like he imagined.  Earlier with Shampoo's reintro, he

Can't he?  He did everything successfully; it just didn't turn out
like he planned.  The only one he didn't actually carry out was
beating Ukyou up, and we don't know if he _wouldn't_ have.  

imagined he would be able to able to act tough and explain everything 

to

Akane, and that she'll just have to listen to him because she's a girl. 
It turned out that he was not at all able to act so tough in front of
her.  Same with Ucchan.

Hardly.  He DID insult her cooking, he DID try to put lipstick on his
clothese, he DID walk out saying Akane was his lover.

	As for Ukyou dranking the sauce, I'm skeptical on that.  She was lying
on the floor and instantly recovered when Akane showed up.  A few 

frames

Being able to stand up isn't the same as instantly recovering,
especially as she apparently has a dizzy spell very shortly afterwards 
(with Ranma and the sauce, she didn't even know what she was doing 
until Nabiki snapped her back to reality).

earlier, she said that:  "For Ranma, I even gave up on okonomiyaki.  I
won't give up easily!"  She was evasdropping on Ranma and Akane, and I
think its probable that she anticipated what Ranma may plan to do next
and moved accordingly.

Indeed, but accordingly could just as easily mean actually taking the
sauce, which she tried to do multiple times earlier in the story.
It's like burying her okonomiyaki stuff...a bold declaration to 
prove how devoted she really is.  Consistant with her personality.

Thus, because Ranma had been afraid of telling the truth (he had
ruined the sauce ten years ago), he was caught in a web of lies,
and finally he decided that the 'best' way out was to promise to
marry Ukyou,

	I'm sorry.  Ukyou is the one who is afraid of the truth.

Prove it.  Give some evidence.  Stop whining "she didn't want to hear
it" here, because that is, bluntly, a load of manure.  Every fact
pointed in the other direction.  Not to YOU, but YOU have the
omniscient persepctive, have seen everything, and know Ranma and Akane
are in love.  She didn't see everything and DOESN'T know Ranma loves
Akane, and the conclusion she reached is the one that makes by far
the most sense to her.

	Ranma told her several times that he made the sauce.  In the final
incident you mentioned, when Ukyou dranked some of the sauce, he said: 
"Didn't I tell you?  I made the sauce!"  He tried earlier, too, but
Ukyou assumed Akane told him to say this, because she was afraid of the
truth.

Evidence, please.  

	I appluad Ukyou for going so far to get Ranma, but definitely Ranma 

did

tell the truth.  She is the one who is not willing to accept the truth,

Ranma told one truth, because he was forced, in the middle of dozens
of lies.  Hardly admirable.

because that would mean she'd have to go home.	

Which, I'll remind you, she did herself, and if she was anything like
you seem to be painting her, she wouldn't.

and then try to drive her away by hurting her where
she was weakest: he tried to insult her cooking, 

	Kasumi said that her cooking isn't that good besides okonomiyaki. 

O_o Uhhh...read again.  Kasumi said her cooking was very good.

Cooking is only one part of his plan, anyway.  He is doing what he
thinks would work.

Exactly.  And even Ranma knew that insulting her cooking would hurt
Ukyou more than anything, as his thoughts show: "It's a little harsh,
but..."

the most important
thing in the world to her; he tried to physically abuse her, and
he tried to pretend he was unfaithful to her.  What excuse can you
give for this?  What possible justification?  And what's more...did
it even work?  

	Please.  Don't tell me for a moment you believe Ranma was actually
going to pull off, that someone like him has the gut to abuse a girl. 

How do we know?  He was able to hit Rouge and Kiima easily enough;
Kodachi too. He loves Akane, so no, he can't hit her...but there's
nothing to show what might have happened if Ukyou hadn't cut him
short. Besides, even planning and ATTEMPTING to do it shows a lot
about Ranma's character.

He is almost afraid of girls.  He could've gotten away from his
engagements by just saying no, but did he ever did so?  No.  

Gotten away from Shampoo or Kodachi by saying no?  <snort>

No.  Through all of that, Ukyou didn't even waver
in her devotion to him.  Why did she leave?  She left because she
had vowed to herself that she would give up okonomiyaki for Ranma,
and when she reflexively tried to cook it later, SHE decided she
wasn't ready for Ranma and left OF HER OWN FREE WILL.  She didn't 

have

to.  She HAD Ranma, she had him and there was nothing anyone could
truly do about it, because he had given his promise (and there were
witnesses, yet).  If Ranma didn't inspire such total, selfless
devotion from her...well, they WOULD be married.  Ranma was even
getting closer to her by the end of the story... <shrug>  Maybe,
would be, should be, all irrelevent.  The point is, there's no excuse
for what Ranma did in that story.  NONE.

	Ukyou never had Ranma.  You don't have someone if they're only

Yes she did.  That promise could be very binding, which is why it was
a stupid risk to take.  Remember what Cologne planned in Volume 22?
Same sort of thing, only Ranma did it on purpose, and Ukyou 
(unfortunately for her) didn't have dozens of witnesses handy.

pretending to be with you.  Just as Ranma was never Kodachi's boyfriend
during the White Lily incident, Ukyou never had Ranma in the Ten Year

Ranma never promised in front of people to marry Kodachi.

Sauce incident.  Ranma pretended to be with her because that's how he
preceived to solve the problem, but he never thought about actually
marrying her.

Naturally he thought about it; he just didn't think it would happen.
Akane was very concerned, and didn't want to see him after he made
the promise, she was so PO'd...right into the middle of the next
issue.

	If Ukyou stayed longer, it still wouldn't have resolved a thing.  

Ranma

will still be torn from making a decision on how to tell her to leave.

No, because eventually...

	When Ranma gave his promise, I can't help but to suspect everyone in
the Tendo household that knew him so well knew it was a lie.  If you're

Soun and Genma: Didn't know about it.
Nabiki and Kasumi: Didn't know and probably wouldn't care.
Akane: Was worried and angry.

Soun Tendo, why would you let someone live with another fiancee in your
house?  He had every right to kick Ukyou and Ranma out of the house, if
truly Ukyou had Ranma, as you claimed.

...Soun would have found out and thrown a fit, and thrown Ranma out.
He didn't know about that promise.  Ranma had made it to Ukyou, and
only Ukyou cold release him from it or he pretty much disgraces his
family and Nodoka chops off his head for being unmanly.  Sorry, don't
pass Go, don't collect $200.  Even Genma probably couldn't wriggle out
of something like that.  With those six words, Ukyou became Ranma's
official fiancee and the one he was honourbound to marry.

	If Ranma is to adhere to all his promises, he still have to go kill 

the

female Ranma when he promised to Shampoo.  He'd have to let his 

daughter

No he didn't.  He promised to "half" kill her.

be engaged to that French guy because he lost a fight to him.  He

No, he had to pay the bill, which Picolette was bugging him about
at the end of the story.  Soun and Genma promised daughters BECAUSE
they couldn't pay the bill, remember?

should've conceded to Mousse when he couldn't make the match as a man. 

Highly debateable.  Ranma can be defined as a male regardless of his
body at the time, same as Tarou/Ryouga/Mousse are human males even 
when in cursed forms.

And what did he do in those incidents?  He arranged with Ryouga to fool
Shampoo into thinking he'd 'killed' female Ranma.  He dressed up as a
guy in his girl-form to make the match against Mousse.  While it isn't
stated, I'm sure if the French guy returns he wouldn't let his daughter
marry them.

But then, he didn't technically break the promises.  Ranma is a little
cautious of his family name, as anyone in his position had better be.
I've never seen him actually break a promise; he WORDS them poorly,
and he tries to weasel out of them, but he's never actually broken
one, not even the promise not to reveal Ryouga's secret.  He'll do
anything _except_ break it, and this pattern is repeated multiple
times in the manga.

	Ukyou's departure is a nice wrapup to the story, and I agree she left
out of her own will, as you said, because she wasn't ready for him yet. 
How is this Ranma's fault?

It's not.  Everything else is, more or less.  

Blade
*********
High Priest of the Goddess Ukyou 
Official Fanboy of Pantyhose Tarou
Founding member of the Viz-basher-bashing Club
Author of unbelieveable talent
Debater beyond compare
Really humble guy  

"Reality is for those who cannot handle fantasy."






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