At 03:50 PM 7/16/1997 -0400, Spacewarp wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jul 1997, Lizsue wrote:

At 08:20 PM 7/12/1997 +1000, Caroline Seawright wrote:

In Japan, mukoyoshi (where the husband is adopted by the wife's parents,
so he takes their family name) is seen as rather unmasculine thing to do.
So no way will Nodoka let Ranma do that - she'd rather have him commit
seppuku than take his wife's name - she wants a MANLY son, remember!

But she's got a less mainstream concept of masculinity.  This is someone 
who thinks spying on girls in the bath is "manly" while everyone else

thinks 

it just means "loser", remember?

I just call this pervert, but its a moot point anyway because Ranma (by my
impression, at least) doesn't intentionally spy on the girls
bathroom/lockers/bathhouse.

That's besides the moot point, actually.  I meant that Nodoka thinks it's 
manly regardless of why it's really happening.

But she's also got the normal concept of masculinity, too. She just
adds on a few weird things ... After all, just like anyone else, she
thinks that Ranma, running around in girls' clothing, is unmanly...
but she thinks that it's okay for a guy to do whatever ecchi thing
he wants with his iinazuke ... but she also thinks that a guy, staring

Isn't this more Genma and Soun's attitude?
"That's what I like to see son, spirit!"

?  Then wouldn't they be nicer to Happosai?

into a mirror and posing, is unmanly. Well, that's a normal thing to
think, too! ^_^

Not if he's checking to make sure his outfit is manly enough!

Personally, I would question the 'manliness' of _silk_ shirts.. usually
only females are thought to wear silk.

I thought silk was only feminine in recent Western cultures, but I have no 
clue about the rest.

(And where does he get the money for these shirts, anyway?  He still owes
Nabiki Y5,000 for Akane's Christmas present!)

In a recent interview Takahashi said that Genma and Ranma supported 
themselves on the road by hunting.

So Ranma's clothes come from all those times he stalked wild silkworms.

Nodoka thinks normal unmanly things are unmanly. It's just that she
thinks some strange other things ARE manly, on top of it.

Okay, I think I get it.  So if it's something "unmanly" that lots of guys 
do, she disapproves but if it's something "unmanly" that only girl-cursed 
guys can do, she accepts it?

She may accept it of Mousse, Ryouga, and Pantyhose Taro as well.  I'm not
sure about Genma, tho.  

?  I meant just feminine stuff that a guy needs a temporarily female body to
do.  So that only counts stuff the other cursed guys can't do in the first 
place.
 

Plus, families sometimes even disown the men that marry into a girl's
family, or are treated badly by the family.

And another point - Ranma is an ONLY son. If Ranma _was_ to do the

unmanly

thing and be adopted by Souun, so becoming Ranma Tendou, what will happen
to the Saotome line? Somehow, I don't think that either Nodoka OR Genma
wishes to kill off the Saotome clan.

They seem to be young enough to have more...besides, who says the clan

Genma would be about 40 ... Nodoka, maybe 37... I think that that is
passed the age for women having children in Japan ... But, even so...

?  I thought they get menopause roughly the same time the rest of us do.  
Thirty-seven is a bit young for that.

What I believe was meant here is that Japanese women generally don't bear
children at that age for social reasons.  Also, a 55-year old woman might
not be able to care for a 17 year old teenager adequately.

Good point (even though 55 is pretty young - way before retirement and all
that; on the other hand if someone becomes a mom or dad at 55, though...).

See the way Nodoka acts around Genma? She dislikes the guy, or at least
doesn't really care about him, any more. Why would she go to the bother

Well why should she?  He took her only son (that we know about) when he
was 4, and she didn't see hide nor hair of him again until he was 16, and
even then only as a (albiet unfeminine) girl for a while!  Wouldn't you
feel some bitterness?

Nodoka's pretty messed up too, though.  Who knows how she feels?

of trying to have more children with a dispicable person like Genma, 
anyway? Ewwww!

Maybe she really wants a cute little baby panda?

This raises a good question.. Is the curse hereditary, ie can you pass it
to your offspring?  Would they be half-cursed?  What if Shampoo and Mousse
had kids.. would they turn into cats, ducks, or some perverse combination
of the two?  Is this how the cabbit was discovered?

Well, that dragon that was thrown into a woman spring (and got hit with the 
magic bucket to stay that way) later gave birth to Herb and he was a normal 
human baby.  I guess if people in this setting had non-human offspring 
they'd want to do the same thing to them (curse as people and lock that way) 
if only to keep poachers et al. away.

Related question: what gender does Genma the panda have?

depends on Ranma?  Maybe he's just a tiny little twig on the family tree.

If it didn't, then it would be the one to carry on the name who would
be the heir to the musabetsu kakuto Saotome ryuu. And unless Nodoka
has had some very shameful and dishonourable children, then there is
no-one else. (If Genma had some illegitamate chlidren, it would be

Who said they'd be illegitimate?  What if this is Genma's or Nodoka's second 
marriage - then there would be other children who don't have this problem. > 

But again,, while it's becoming more common, divorce in Japan is fairly
dishonorable.  I suppose that if the first spouse died, that would be
acceptable.

Probably.

Takahashi never said he didn't have a whole bunch of Saotome cousins who 
could carry on the family name.  What if we don't know about all his

aunts 

and uncles because they're just too embarrassed to admit they're

related to 

Genma?

They'd have kicked Genma out of the family, unless they were all like
him. So it's very doubtful that there are any more of the Saotome clan
around.

Actually, we've seen almost nothing of Genma's past before Nadoka, so I
suppose anything's possible, including him RUNNING AWAY FROM HOME with
dreams of becoming a Samurai.  If this (or something similar) were the
case, his family might very much want to see him again, but not have any
way of finding him.  (hey.. this might be a good fanfic.. lemme think
about it 8)

That's the spirit!  Get creative!

And if there WERE others, why did Genma own the clan household? There's
no way he could have afforded, or even made, that old house with the
way he steals things.

?

That was the clan household?  I haven't seen that part of the manga yet, so 
I didn't know whether or not the Saotome house was a normal one or something
else....

Ditto.  Where is this house?  Is it the one Nadoka still lives in?

Kun-chan has a clue about said building.  Go ask her.
 

But Ranma is still an only son - there's no way that the parents would
stop their line of the family and let it die out for no reason.

Says who?  Maybe Genma has always secretly hated his name, and thinks that
Tendo is a better name for a school of Anything-Goes Martial Arts.

True story from a couple of years ago:

Once upon a time Mr. Robin Thursday and Miss Tuesday Hood fell in love and 
got engaged.  They wanted to share a name.  In Western traditions the woman 
would have to change hers, but the groom took the bride's name instead only 
because Robin Hood sounds less stupid than Tuesday Thursday.

But it just wouldn't happen... Ranma would never take Akane's name,
because of his ego, etc, and he wants to be seen as a man as much as
possible - taking Akane's name would just show to the world that he's not
only a girl in body (some of the times), but he's a girl in his heart, and
that _Akane_ is the man in the family!

Good point - would Akane refuse to do this because it would make her look 
less feminine?  Or would her ego demand that she keep her name?

I personally see Akane as being softer than most.  I think that if Ranma
admitted his love to her and asked her, that she would take his name.
That's a pretty big 'if', tho.

But since Ranma tends to get confused when girls make traditional romantic
gestures to him, he might not go with it (see details in my other post that 
responds to Kun-chan's).

Hmm...did Japan have primogeniture (in England this meant only the first 
son would inherit the family estate to keep it from getting split up

again 

and again over generations, and the other sons got nothing)?  If Japan

did 

No, all the family members should get equal, but it's equal - as long as
you are male.

Oh, okay.

So splash Akane with the spring of drowned man water (chinese name escapes
me at the moment).  That'd fix it 8)

Been done already.  Isn't it Nabiki's turn by now?

But since Ranma isn't the younger brother, and since he doesn't have

Well, you could say he's the youngest....

but i won't ^_~

Give it a try.  See what happens.

Nodoka would have taken them along to meet Ranma ... unlss they're
illegitamate, then it all turns very nasty. ;p

It would be nastier if they were cannibals, though.

Or coincidentally cursed as well 8>

Cursed cannibals in scenes written by people in lemon-writing moods.

Good points, though.  Hmm...what if you make an honor-bound promise to do 
something dishonorable?

If you're honourbound to do something dishonourable? Then there's no
honour involved, ne? But I guess it all depends who you are ... if
you are Genma, then you just don't care what's honourable and what's
not... If you're Ranma, then if it's your father telling you to do
something, you tell him to go jump off a cliff. ^_^

I think the more appropriate term would be "Go jump in Cursed Spring"

But he already did....

after Souun instead. Plus it's unmanly. What are the things that Ranma 
_would_ get out of taking the name Tendou, other than what he's going 
to get anyway?  
It's shorter.  His children would spend less time penciling in bubbles
on all those standardized forms.  

hear here!  As a close friend of Thomas Dreverchesinski, I know exactly
what that is like!  (also his name would no longer remind him of his
curse)

Good point - I heard that "Saotome" means "young virgin rice patty goddess", 
although it probably doesn't.