No.  The major issue (as I understand it from your description) is 
not that there is too much spam on the current FFML, although that 
could be argued.  The major issue is this, as I see it:

*  A new fan comes to the list with grand notions of learning how

to 

    write, posting his fic to the FFML at large, and getting 
    constructive C&C on it.  He or she is almost invariably 
    disappointed, because people are too busy reading the fics of

the 

    authors they know already, rather than spending a little time

on 

    those and a little time on the "unkown" authors.

	Frankly, I can't tell Spam from Fic anymore.  Its gotten too big, it
needs to end here. NO MORE SPAM.
 

*  Some people (like most of this list, apparently) would rather

see 

    all the fanfics posted and C&C and discuss them than have any 
    large amount of spam on the list to clog traffic.  OTHERS 
    (like me; although I hope I'm *not* alone in this) wouldn't 
    mind posting to a more limited venue (say maybe 100 subbers 
    instead of 400+?) if it gave the unknown authors a chance too. 

    By that, I mean that people would likely not have all of the 
    "known" authors on their particular list, and would spend only 
    some of their free time reading knowns, and the rest taking a 
    chance (and possibly C&Cing) the unknowns.

	There are less of *your kind* than you think. Spam is spam because
its out of place, it doesn't belong here.  And splitting the list
just causes chaos, if the list splits, you'll get the same amount of
posts, but times how many ML's it split into.  As so many people have
said before me, Segragation is not the answer.

*  As above, some people would rather the amount of spam on the 
    current FFML be reduced.  Others (like me; and again, I hope

I'm 

    *not* alone in this) would prefer more socializing (which means

    spam), but on a smaller list so that people would be more

likely 

    to get to know one another, there being relatively few faces to

    meet and talk to (and remember, and keep track of!) rather than

    prohibitively many.

	And tell me, what difference does it make if you read a fic from an
author you know and one you don't?  THATS the damn problem, no one
reads the 'fics of authors they don't recognize anymore.  Even the
great authors of this ML had to start somewhere, SOMEONE had to read
their work.
 
[snipped out some stuff, didn't look interesting, didn't bother to
read it]

* Some would prefer the FFML not be split up, because of

crossposting 

    issues, personality wars, and so on.  Others (like me) are 
    willing to try this experiment, since the original FFML need

not 

    be touched; rather, sub-FFML's can be created on my own

account.  

These are the issues, as I see them.

	And you are always entitled to your opinion.

	And I'm entitled to try and change it. ;)

HOWEVER, knowing that my proposals haven't gotten hardly any

positive 

response whatsoever, and that only in the form of alternate split 
proposals, I'm not saying that I'm *going* to implement the

sublists. 

 In fact, it probably won't happen at all.  But if there *is* a 
significant interest in splitting the list (leaving the current

FFML 

intact, though), I'd be willing to contribute resources toward the 
most popular split proposal, _even if it wasn't the one I'm

proposing 

now_.

	It if won't happen at all... why talk about it? Your just generating
more spam... ;)

I really am interested in doing what the FFML at large wants.  I'm 
not in this for selfish, personal gain, control, money, or anything

else like that.  I hope I'm making that perfectly clear.

	Nope.  If you are truly interested at what the FFML wants, you'd
have realized the FFML want to outlaw spam, YET still send spam. Have
everyone read their 'fic, YET not read any of anyone elses.

This most recent spam thread doesn't count.  Observing the list, as

it were, changes what the observable quantity is.  In making this 
suggestion that was bound to be a sore spot with many, as well as 
something a lot of people would have strong opinions on, I knew it 
would create a huge spam thread.  If you wanted to observe the 
_usual_ spam content of the list, you'd have to take your sample

from 

about a week ago, before this thread started.  And you can easily

do 

that by checking the archives, I'm pretty sure.

	And why doesn't it count, its Spam, its not a fanfic.  Why shoudl it
not count just because its Spam about Spam about Spam? 

Both of these people types are adamantly steadfast in the belief

that

they shouldn't have to sort through spam to get fanfictions of

this

list. I too find it annoying, but this list is not only for

fanfictions

as I see it. It has grown to be quite a bit more social than from

what

its first purpose was, which is to be accepted with the huge

volume of

people.

Actually, it started out being much more social, and gradually 
decreased.  That was my original claim.  You can take a look at the

early archived material to see this, if you want.

	I really dont' read anythign that says [SPAM] in it. Not at all.
 

This is unfortunate for those who have such limited email

serverspace

that still want to be a part, for several of the Free mail

servers have

almost no mail space (the least ive seen is only 200k.)

I've heard about those.  And I pity the users.  Of the two

reasonable 

split proposals I've seen (I'm including my own and Eric's, I think

his name is), both would reduce incoming mail by one method or 
another.  Any split would benefit them.

But my nasty sadistic side keeps saying-- Hey, you get what you

pay for.

Rather than saying that, I would consider that most of the free 
subbers can't afford to pay for their net connection.

>From what I understand, this list was developed for draft

version

reviews of fanfiction.

No, I think it was developed to be that, as well as a forum where

the 

participants could interact in a number of ways, one being C&C and 
discussion of fics.  Another, of course, being socializing (spam).

	I bet.
 

TO those who seek no spam, May I point out
something?

R.A.A.C.

Nothing but fanfiction, with the exception of the generated FAQ.

This

moderated list is for exactly what most who want to split the

list are

asking for. No spam.

That is NOT what I'm asking for.

	No one said this is what you were asking for. In fact, this is the
opposite of what your asking for.
 

At this rate, if argueing continues, lines will be drawn between

the

rooted veterans, the ferverous newbies, and the moderates who

just like

stories will be crushed in the middle if one or the other

dominates

enough to get the list shut down. I've seen this division too

many times

in good organisations like A Dojo, and Drum&Bugel Corps I've been

a part

of.

Again, the FFML doesn't have to be touched to try out any of the 
split proposals.  Perhaps you either haven't yet read my offer of 
hosting one or two small sub-lists, or you missed it in all of the 
traffic.

Damon Casale, damoo@carmelnet.com
Spam, spam!  WONDERFUL spam!  ^_^

	This very sig file is scary to me.

Note: If this message sounds harsh, well.. it is. Hence:
	"No one ever listens to you in this time unless you... Swear every
other word. You'll find it all the great literature of the time."
-Kirk to Spock, Star Trek IV

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Poet, Writer, Philospher, and Hopeless Romantic.<Omicron@sprynet.com>
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