He has an obligation to know the Amazon laws since he entered their
society.  I know some cavalierly think otherwise but that is wrong.
You enter a society with it's own laws, even on a short visit, you are
held to the laws.  Ignorance isn't a defense.

Ooooooooooooooooookaaaaaay. This is one of the most stupid things that
I've heard.

<snip>

And how on earth does one learn the laws (customs) of a village before
they even get there? Ranma just was resting there before continuing on
his travel.

I'd like to see you try to learn the laws of every little village you pass
through on a trip. It's impossible.

Okay, on this point I have to pipe up.

Ranma didn't know what the customs were, and shouldn't really be expected
to know the customs. He can't learn within the time that he knew about
them. These "laws" would only be "customs" not consistant with the general
laws of China.

Exactly.

The Amazons, however, have demonstrated that don't give a damn about any of
that. Neither will any of the local peoples that you may encounter on
safari, Kun-chan. They're gonna apply their laws/customs to outsiders,
ignorance or no ignorance. People can and do get killed on safaris when
they offend the locals.

I know. But what I was trying to say is that Ranma couldn't learn the
laws, like someone said that he SHOULD have done ... and that Ranma's
troubles with Shampoo should have ended when he left her village.

He did the wrong thing, and corrected his mistake with the food. Then
he found out about a stupid law, which is illegal in China, anyway. I
know nothing about how law is delt with in China, but I'll bet that
murdering someone because they're better than you won't let you off!

So the only other wrong was done by Shampoo.

So it's SHAMPOO's fault that she's hanging around Ranma. Ranma owes
Shampoo _nothing_, let alone an engagement/marriage. The only thing
that Ranma owes Shampoo is a kick in the face, and to send her to
jail. :p  It's just lucky for Shampoo that he doesn't beat up girls.

Solution: Hire a guide.

Guides are not only trained in the local flora and fauna, and places of
interest and trivia, but also in crisis management. They know the local
customs and some of the habits of their customers that might get them into
trouble. He's then able to stop trouble before it starts, and everyone is
peachy.

Sure, _Ranma_ didn't know what the customs was, but the Jyusenkyo Guide
DID. It's his job. He should've been carefully watching them around the
food and making sure that Ranma and Genma didn't confuse the first prize
with the buffet table. A good guide will know the cultures of all the
villages they are likely to pass through, and the behavior of his customers
(such as R&G's bottomless stomachs).

That's another thing - the GUIDE should have warned Ranma and Genma about
the village BEFORE they got there.

Ranma and Genma travelled in the rest of China without any worries... so
it's only that particular village where things suck so much that they'd
almost get killed for being better than someone from that village.

Also, when you hire a guide, it's your responsibility to ask him and listen
to him when he tries to tell you something. If you're not willing to do
that, then you might as well have not wasted your money.

How can you ask something when you know nothing about it? It's impossible
to do, unless you have ESP! If they'd have known about the Amazon village,
they would have asked. But they didn't. So it was the Guide's fault for
not informing them about it.

But he still has some point. Ranma was stupid not a) listening or asking
his guide (I mean, this is what you hired him for, right? Not listening to
him is why he got cursed in the first place, right? SHOULDA LEARNED BY NOW,
RIGHT?), and b) not being supercautious about things you're not sure about.
Like that "buffet table".

Well, you're right on one point - Ranma was stupid. He should have found
a Guide that would actually HELP instead of letting them go into the pools
without telling them what the danger was first. :p  He let them into the
village without telling them what the danger was there, too!

Fat lot of good that'll do him when his head's cut off; Shampoo won't give
a damn, and the Guide knows this, so he should've kept a close eye on his
customers.

If you forget - this is talking about why Ranma "owes" Shampoo something.
I'm just pointing out that Ranma owes Shampoo NOTHING. Shampoo was in
the wrong, so Ranma doesn't owe her an engagement or anything else.
Nothing to do with getting his head chopped off!

So what you're saying is that if he didn't make it out of the villiage,
Shampoo would've been right?

No, if they didn't make it out, then they'd be dead and there would be
no point in arguing about Ranma "owing" Shampoo an engagement.

Ranma got into trouble in the first place by forcing a Japanese/American
custom (a buffet table) onto Chinese culture (the first prize). Works both
ways.

Yep, which he fixed by winning the fight. Therefor he owes Shampoo
nothing.

No, it's a custom. If it was a law, then all of China would have that law.
The little village isn't a totally different country, you know!

BULLSHIT! We in the states have a very similar arrangement: Local and state
laws. Federal Laws apply to the entire country. State Laws only apply to
the state. Local Laws only apply to the city. BUT THEY ALL HAVE TO BE
OBEYED, OR YOU'RE GONNA GET ARRESTED!

I'm sorry, but the Government of the USA wouldn't allow a state to have
all the people who live in that state to legally kill people if they
show that they are better than them!

And I'll bet that the Amazon legal system isn't even authorised by the
Chinese government, either!

So it's totally different.

The only difference between a custom and a law is that breaking a custom
will at worst give you a fast trip out of the village. The Amazons consider
their "custom" a law, and that's all that really matters to them, and
should be all that really matters to you. "Real" law or no, you're gonna
end up dead because of it. It's a local law, Kun-chan, and it _does_ count.

Not in a legal sense, it's not a law - because it's part of China, and
China doesn't acknowledge it. It's a village, not a state or a provence!

Doesn't matter if you'll end up dead or not - it isn't a real law, so
Ranma had nothing to learn besides the Chinese law.

You have to use common sense and think in practical terms, Kun-chan. Ranma
was the one in a foriegn country. He didn't know the laws / customs /
whatever. In practical terms, he should've been pussy-footing like crazy.
Ranma should've asked about the table to make sure that he could (or in
this case, could not) eat from it. He SHOULD KNOW BY NOW from Jyusenkyou
that he's gotta be extra-careful around here. By not being careful, he's
being stupid.

Even if he should have done so, he didn't. But he made up for the only
thing he did wrong - eat the food.

It's Shampoo's fault that she sucks at fighting and lost. And as soon
as Ranma got out of the village, the village "law" is not in effect. The
laws of China are in effect. Then when he got to Japan, it was the
Japanese laws that were in effect.

Shampoo was in the wrong - Ranma owes Shampoo the beating off her life
and to send her back to China, and to have the Japanese government never
let her back in Japan again.

It also doesn't change the fact that Shampoo is after him now in a
different way in his male form. But that's neither his fault nor his
responsibility. It was in his country. However, he should consider that the
Amazon doesn't care, and if he knew about the marriage law, he should've
disarmed her without defeating her. Maybe a quick trip to the library
before coming home after the skating match (or before even) would've
helped.

Yep. But the problem is that someone was crapping on about it being
Ranma's fault, and so Ranma owes Shampoo something.

>From all the evidence, Ranma owes Shampoo nothing.

Thinking in practical terms gets you out of more messes than arguing about
legality ever will.

Yeah, if Ranma was practical, he'd get the Japanese government to kick
Shampoo out of the country. But he doesn't ... so he didn't get out of
that mess, which wasn't even really his fault. 

Kun-chan...
--
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* http://www.ecr.mu.oz.au/~caseawr *
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* High Priestess of Ryouga         *
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