Plus, how on earth can you blame Ranma for something he didn't know?

He has an obligation to know the Amazon laws since he entered their
society.  I know some cavalierly think otherwise but that is wrong.
You enter a society with it's own laws, even on a short visit, you are
held to the laws.  Ignorance isn't a defense.

Ooooooooooooooooookaaaaaay. This is one of the most stupid things that
I've heard.

<snip>

And how on earth does one learn the laws (customs) of a village before
they even get there? Ranma just was resting there before continuing on
his travel.

I'd like to see you try to learn the laws of every little village you pass
through on a trip. It's impossible.

Okay, on this point I have to pipe up.

Ranma didn't know what the customs were, and shouldn't really be expected
to know the customs. He can't learn within the time that he knew about
them. These "laws" would only be "customs" not consistant with the general
laws of China.

The Amazons, however, have demonstrated that don't give a damn about any of
that. Neither will any of the local peoples that you may encounter on
safari, Kun-chan. They're gonna apply their laws/customs to outsiders,
ignorance or no ignorance. People can and do get killed on safaris when
they offend the locals.

Solution: Hire a guide.

Guides are not only trained in the local flora and fauna, and places of
interest and trivia, but also in crisis management. They know the local
customs and some of the habits of their customers that might get them into
trouble. He's then able to stop trouble before it starts, and everyone is
peachy.

Sure, _Ranma_ didn't know what the customs was, but the Jyusenkyo Guide
DID. It's his job. He should've been carefully watching them around the
food and making sure that Ranma and Genma didn't confuse the first prize
with the buffet table. A good guide will know the cultures of all the
villages they are likely to pass through, and the behavior of his customers
(such as R&G's bottomless stomachs).

Some people go on safaris without a guide, and sometimes they are neeeever
seen again. And what's more, the local cultures aren't faulted for it.

There's also a rule in traveling (actually, a good guideline, but I call it
the First Rule) that keeps you out of a lot of trouble: "Don't assume
ANYTHING; be sure! If you don't know exactly what it is or exactly what
it's for, don't touch it! Ask first." This is doubly important if you can't
READ the local writing. Applying this rule has saved me a lot of grief.
Ranma's and Genma's trouble was that they ASSUMED it was a buffet table.
How are they sure it's not a picnic table? You can't just waltz in and grab
food off someone else's picnic table. That's a nono. In America, that wins
you a punch in the nose. In the Joketsuzoku village, it wins you a crazed
Amazon on your ass.

Also, when you hire a guide, it's your responsibility to ask him and listen
to him when he tries to tell you something. If you're not willing to do
that, then you might as well have not wasted your money.

And Shampoo's "laws" don't even apply outside of her village.

So they do NOT hold anywhere else in China, let along in Japan!

Doesn't matter. She believed that they do; she chases after Ranma. It
would've been better if Ranma didn't offend the natives, but both he and
the Guide fucked up.

So Shampoo is wronging Ranma by trying to force him to do what her laws
say. She owes Ranma.

Shampoo, if she had any honour, would go back to where her laws applied,
and stop trying to force her laws on someone who isn't in her village.

Hai, it doesn't make it right, but it would've been better for ALL parties
involved if a) the guide was doing his job, or b) Ranma followed the First
Rule of traveling.

Going on a trip in the back of beyond without a guide and without knowing
the language is my choice, but I must be prepared for the fact that
sometimes the natives won't care that I don't know the "laws" of the
village. I'll still get killed for them anyway. I'd hire a guide, and
listen to him. And follow the First Rule.

Amazon Rules that Ranma knew up till that point - Any Amazon who gets
KOed by an outsider is to be killed.

Still, he should have had a working knowledge of the Amazon laws since he
entered their society at one time.  Matter of fact, it was stupid of him
not to check up on the laws after the KOD since he just might have found a
way out of the mess.

Oh, good. Let's see you get a working knowledge of the law of the Zulus.
They're more famous than an unknown village of the Amazons, and you have a
lot more time to learn the laws than Ranma had - he only had about 10m or
so since he even knew the Amazons existed - so can you do this?

If you can't, then you are spouting a lot of nonsense here.

But he still has some point. Ranma was stupid not a) listening or asking
his guide (I mean, this is what you hired him for, right? Not listening to
him is why he got cursed in the first place, right? SHOULDA LEARNED BY NOW,
RIGHT?), and b) not being supercautious about things you're not sure about.
Like that "buffet table".

So, Ranma could stand with the killing - but he had no idea about the
other law.

Still, he was reckless.  It's quite clear he didn't put any thought into
his action and just went off and did something stupid.  As I said,
carelessness and recklessness do not amount to a defense.

That's normal for Ranma.

And he doesn't need a defense, because it's only you how are saying silly
things like this. Shampoo's "laws" do NOT apply in Japan. They do NOT
apply in China. The ONLY apply in her village.

So it's SHAMPOO who is in the wrong here, not Ranma.

Fat lot of good that'll do him when his head's cut off; Shampoo won't give
a damn, and the Guide knows this, so he should've kept a close eye on his
customers.

True, Shampoo is in the wrong, but in practical terms, Ranma and his pop
shouldn't have been touching that food in the first place.

So how, pray tell, is it Ranma's fault?

Simple, he was reckless.

Well, however reckless Ranma is, it's Shampoo's fault for trying to force
her village customs on other cultures, just as it's your fault for trying
to force American customs on Japanese culture.

So what you're saying is that if he didn't make it out of the villiage,
Shampoo would've been right?

Ranma got into trouble in the first place by forcing a Japanese/American
custom (a buffet table) onto Chinese culture (the first prize). Works both
ways.

Maybe if you go to another place, and break a custom that you didn't

This isn't a custom, it's a law.

No, it's a custom. If it was a law, then all of China would have that law.
The little village isn't a totally different country, you know!

BULLSHIT! We in the states have a very similar arrangement: Local and state
laws. Federal Laws apply to the entire country. State Laws only apply to
the state. Local Laws only apply to the city. BUT THEY ALL HAVE TO BE
OBEYED, OR YOU'RE GONNA GET ARRESTED!

The only difference between a custom and a law is that breaking a custom
will at worst give you a fast trip out of the village. The Amazons consider
their "custom" a law, and that's all that really matters to them, and
should be all that really matters to you. "Real" law or no, you're gonna
end up dead because of it. It's a local law, Kun-chan, and it _does_ count.

know about, then it's your fault? And that you should be forced to
do the punishment for breaking that custom, even though you didn't
know about it?

Yes, you should be punished.  If you think you shouldn't you're just plain
wrong.  I stated this before, whenever you enter a lawful society you have
an obligation to know and abide by the laws.  Ranma failed to do this, and
therefore committed a reckless or careless action.  He should have known
the laws.

But the Amazon's aren't lawful. They do not follow the laws of their own
country. So that's stupid trying to say that they are lawful. They can't
even keep the laws of other countries.

So why don't you tell us all how bad Shampoo is, because she doesn't
follow the laws of Japan? After all, she's been there for a LOT longer
than Ranmma was in her little village. And she SHOULD know the law of
Japan, like you said.

So where's all the writing about how Shampoo is worse than Ranma, since
she does more wrong than he's ever done?

Ranma may be reckless, but at least he doesn't try to force his laws on
Shampoo's village. He just left. That should have been the end of it.

Basically, it all boils down to this:

Ultimately, the _only_ one responsible for your own hide is YOU.

You have to use common sense and think in practical terms, Kun-chan. Ranma
was the one in a foriegn country. He didn't know the laws / customs /
whatever. In practical terms, he should've been pussy-footing like crazy.
Ranma should've asked about the table to make sure that he could (or in
this case, could not) eat from it. He SHOULD KNOW BY NOW from Jyusenkyou
that he's gotta be extra-careful around here. By not being careful, he's
being stupid.

The guide should've been watching his customers. He SHOULD KNOW BY NOW that
these customers do some rather silly things. He also knew that this is a
village with no mercy, where some of those silly things could end up with
them getting seriously dead. Should've been keeping a close eye on them
there, and should've told them on the outset that his customers should
_really_ watch their step.

Shampoo didn't know better. She was risking herself being in Japan on her
vendetta, but she's being responsible for her own hide. Ranma isn't. He's
only responsible for his hide, and Shampoo being in the wrong doesn't
change the fact that she's hunting him down. In a way, it's like falling
into those springs. He assumed something that he shouldnt've, didn't listen
or ask his guide, and so he has to face the consequences, be it a curse or
an Amazon. Legal, right, his fault or not, he still has a curse, and still
has an Amazon on his tail.

It also doesn't change the fact that Shampoo is after him now in a
different way in his male form. But that's neither his fault nor his
responsibility. It was in his country. However, he should consider that the
Amazon doesn't care, and if he knew about the marriage law, he should've
disarmed her without defeating her. Maybe a quick trip to the library
before coming home after the skating match (or before even) would've
helped.

Thinking in practical terms gets you out of more messes than arguing about
legality ever will.


                           ---------------------
##   ## ##   ## #######  ##   ##  AKA Tom Jefferys, Time Lord for Hire
##   ##  #   #   ##   ## ### ###    "Have TARDIS; Will Travel."
## # ##   ###    #####   ## # ##  Weilder of ANVIL and SPAM! Breaker of
### ###    #     ##  ##  ##   ##  <wyrm@mail.utexas.edu>      the Mold!
##   ##   ###   ###   ## ##   ##    <JEFFERYSTR@rascal.guilford.edu>
Spring of Drowned Cannon-Fodder "You'd better find a cure quick!"
Darwin was wrong: Man is still an ape!