On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Richard Lawson wrote:
: Jon K. Hayashi wrote:
:
: > >Other people whose opinions I've read seem to prefer novelized
: > >prose to scripts generally. Prose stories tend to do better in the
: > >best of rec.arts.anime.creative voting too.
: >
: > But how much of that is due to the perception that prose stories
: > are the "norm"? Because we're already indoctrinated that prose
: > stories are the way books are written, the assumption becomes
: > that (fan) fiction should be done in that way as well. That isn't
: > necessarily the case. What matters, really, is developing and
: > using a style (whether its one or a combination) that the writer
: > is comfortable with.
:
: I won't argue with the last statement, which is true. If the writer is
: good enough, they are able to overcome the limitations of script format,
: like Biles, Weinberg, and the DnR authors are able to. Still, I cannot
: help but feel that their stories would be better if they would write
: them in prose format.
They most certainly wouldn't. You would perhaps *feel* that they
were, because they would conform to your preconception of what a
"good" story looks like, but they would not truly be better, since
they wouldn't be the story the author wanted to tell anymore.
I *keep* telling you that both forms of writing exist for a
*reason* and that I, myself, choose the form that is most
appropriate to the story and what I want it to do. I am not
"overcoming the limitations of the style" but I use it where its
effect is what I desire and where it is needed. *That's* why it
works, not because I am investing hard work into labouring against
a restrictive style.
: And while the fact that 99% of stories are written in prose format
: rather than script format isn't, in and of itself, proof that prose
: format is better, it's surely a good indication.
It's a good indication of how conditioning works. Declaring one
form of writing to be innately superior to the other - *that's*
what is *really* limiting.
I am getting pretty upset now.
: > Writing well in script format is much harder than writing in
: > prose. The script style forces the writer to be specific and
: > descriptive at the same time, and not fill the story with
: > information/description/whatever that doesn't add much (IMO).
I'll take exception to this. Writing *one and the same story* in
prose and script format is very hard, because usually only one of
the forms is appropriate. If you are having a hard time
expressing what you want to in script, you simply chose the wrong
format.
: > Prose writers can ramble at times and lose focus. And who really
: > cares how many hot dogs Kodachi can eat in an hour, anyway?
:
: I don't know the purpose of the last line, so I'll ignore it. I've seen
: script formats that are filled with a lot of unnecessary dialogue. This
: is mostly because the writers can't make simple prose descriptions of
: thoughts and emotions, so fall back on verbosity of the characters to
: overcome that. So while bad prose stories are filled with unnecessary
: descriptions, even good script stories are filled with excessive
: dialogue in an attempt to overcome the limitations of the medium. IMO
: as well.
This is quite the double standard. When a prose story is filled
with unnecessary ramblings, it's the fault of the writer, but if
the same happens in script, it's the format? Su-u-ure, Richard.
: > Writing in script demands more on the end of editing. Since
: > the object is to tell the story the most effectively, every
: > word increases in importance. Details that are described carry
: > more implication than they would in prose format, since they
: > wouldn't have been mentioned unless they were necessary.
:
: This I disagree with.
Me too. He is making the same error that you make, Richard,
namely claiming that one format is *objectively* "better" (or more
effective) than the other. The rest of the paragraph, I agree
with. Every word *does* take on more weight in a sparse format
like script.
: I agonize over every story I write, and usually
: send them off to pre-readers to pore over. And I disagree with the
: phrase "most effectively"; you're revealing your bias here.
Indeed.
: It's my
: opinion that prose tells the story "most effectively". Judging by the
: comments I've seen here, most of the FFML seems to agree.
Oh sure, "I must be right - everybody else thinks so, too" :)
First you go and accuse him for being biased, and then you repeat
his statement, only with 'Prose' instead of 'Script'. Great
argumentation.
: Check out my prose stories some time, Jon. They are *very* minimal in
: descriptions. I don't think I ever mention what anyone is wearing
: unless it's important. I don't describe things in any kind of detail.
I noticed. :)
: People who are unnecessarily descriptive are writing bad prose, true.
: But that's not because they choose to write in prose; it's because
: they're writing badly. The format has nothing to do with it.
Except that you keep claiming that bad script stories *are* a
function of the format.
: > Dialogue and action that occur at a fast pace (and I would say
: > normally as well) definitely work better in script format because
: > you can envision it happening. You can run it through your mind,
: > or even out loud (which some writers obviously fail to do at times,
: > in regard to dialog). That being said, emotions and thoughts and
: > motives work better using the prose style.
:
: You *can* write good, snappy dialogue in prose format, and actions can
: be written well in prose as well (ask Fleming or Ludlum). Again, it's a
: function of the writer, not the format.
:
: And you've hit the nail on the head as to why prose format is better
: than script. Emotions, thought, and motivations are *much* easier to
: convey in prose format.
Aaaarrrgh! RICHARD! That doesn't make prose better *period*, it
*ONLY* makes it better *for directly expressing emotions, thought
and motivations*! If that's what you want from your story, you
choose prose, if that's what you *don't* want, you choose script!
Do you realize that you are basically proclaiming your style of
writing to be superior, by insisting that the format that suits it
best is innately and objectively "better"?
: Script format assumes that there will be a visual and/or audio medium to
: accompany the dialogue and stage directions. There, you depend on the
: actors (voice or otherwise) to convey the emotions and feelings.
In script format we rely on inserting directions like
"[nervously]" or "[shouting]" - and of course on the imagination
and common sense of the reader. You leave out a lot of visual
description because you assume that your readers are smart enough
to figure it out and fill in the blanks - when I write in script
format, I leave out the introspection and direct description of
motivations, because I assume that my readers can figure it out
from what I give them; the actions, words (spoken or thought) and
visuals of the characters.
To claim that script is inferior because it puts emphasis on the
external, instead of the internal as in prose, is to claim that
the internal is always more important and appropriate for any kind
of story - which is patently wrong. IMO, if you need that
qualifier.
: Without such accompaniments, script format comes across as incomplete,
: the feeling that something is missing - which, of course, it is.
Which I don't deny. It is missing *intentionally*. When I write
in script, I do so because I *want* the internal happenings to be
hidden. If I wanted them to be out in the open, I'd write the
story in prose.
: > You want to do lemon scenes? Do them in prose - you're typically
: > dealing not only with action but also emotions. You want to do
: > snappy dialogue or a fight, do it in script - the format doesn't
: > detract from the flow of the story, yet it still remains clear
: > exactly what's going on.
:
: Well, this I won't touch on, only to comment that I have yet to see a
: script lemon. Then again, I don't read many lemons, so who knows what
: people have tried. :)
Whoah, *that's* a challenge. I *was* thinking of doing a lemon
sidestory to _Ranko 1/2_, but I was instinctively thinking in
terms of prose, since a lemon deals primarily with emotions (or
rather, *should* do so). Hmmm, now I'll try to come up with a
story that'll be appropriate for script style.
: All just my opinion, of course, and is meant in no way to be a flame.
Nevertheless, I got pretty upset at times, while reading this.
Sebastian