From: Greg Sandborn, sandborn@microlink.net
In any case, Martin's point, while a bit over blown, is quite
accurate. His complaint is not so much the 'explicit' workings of the FFML
but
rather the 'implicit' suggestions of the act itself.
I agree that can be an issue, and I've stated that in the past. However,
I think this time it was necessary.
When this subject's come up before, I've always argued that the ideal
situation for this list is a mix. The purpose of the list is to discuss
fanfics and fanfic writing; and to fulfill that purpose, there's bound to
be a number of messages that are not either fanfics or C&C. And there's
going to be some amount of spam that is part of a free, creative
atmosphere. You and Martin are probably right in saying that this
atmosphere has chilled in the last few days.
However, the problem comes when a spam thread takes things too far in the
other direction. A few spam posts on a subject aren't a problem; a
30-post running spam debate is very much a problem. The Ukyou debate last
week started out reasonably enough, but it wasn't cut off when it should
have been. A couple of posts discussing her appearance/actions in a
fanfic was fine. Extending it to her behavior in the series was fine for
a couple of posts, since that can help authors with characterization.
Turning it into a running debate was too much. When the participants
started getting personal, that was *much* too much. It should have
stopped long before the point where it disrupted the ML.
Suggestions, I might add, that have been reenforced
by the recent "SHUT THE HELL UP" note so 'elouquently' posted
by Mr. Entomorph.
Rudeness is inexcusable... no matter *who* does it. Martin, I'm sorry,
but your post wasn't exactly a model of polite behavior either. The
proper response to rude behavior isn't being rude in return.
Consider it a 'spam and die' situation.
Probably. Too much spam will kill the list. And if you're suggesting what
I think you're suggesting, I can't agree in any sense; spamming as a
protest doesn't do anything to help the amount of fun, fanfics, or C&C
here.
You, no doubt,
have noticed the reduced traffic on this ML. Some will suggest it has more
to do
with people being busy with their projects and such. I contend it is the
direct result of the 'chilling' effect of the recent desire for overt
censorship on the part of a relative few.
I wouldn't be surprised if that were part of the issue. However, I think
the kind of vicious debates we've had here *also* have a chilling effect
-- and need to be toned down or ended. I don't think I've seen anyone
complain recently when the spam has been the normal, random sort; it's
only after these long off-topic debates that we have people complaining.
Tell me... did you like it better when the "reply-to" field automatically
routed all messages to /dev/null, as it was 3-4 days ago? At least now the
"reply-to" field sends your message replies to a PERSON instead of the big
trashcan in the ethernet.
This is a specious argument, at best. Removing all freedom, then
restoring partial freedom is no improvement. Declaring a police state but
changing it to allow everyone to come and go only to work, is hardly an
improvement. And that is, basically, what has occurred.
Huh? How, please, does either one constitute a 'removal of freedom'? The
only case where I can imagine this to be true is if your e-mail program
doesn't let you change the to: address on a reply... and in the 8 or so
years I've used the Internet, I've never run across a single e-mail
program that does this, though I admit there could possibly be one. In
every other case, all you have to do is change the to: field to send a
reply to the list... and, as Jeanne suggested, this is hardly a total ban.
Travis Butler
(The Professor, formerly of Myth and Magick!, Lawrence, KS;
tbutler@tfs.net, now from the Wandering Powerbook;
<http://www.tfs.net/personal/tbutler/>;
Mac page <http://www.tfs.net/business/tbutler/>)
...Cats are the proof of a higher purpose to the universe.