Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 19:42:12 +1000 (EST)
   From: Caroline Ann Seawright <kunoichi@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au>

   >    Hmmm.... Okay, I can see that. I'll bet that some people think
   >    that there are kangaroos hopping down the streets, too...
   > Well, deer certainly do that in the US....

   In the city?

Depending on the size of the city, yes.  Due to various policies,
there's lots more whitetail deer in the US now than there was when
Westerners showed up.

   >    Ah, well... All those people with guns in the US should go
   >    kill the people in the government and maybe it'll help the
   >    country...
   > Roughly half the people in the US own guns---all of us going after
   > "the people in the government" would be a bit ... excessive.  And
   > quite unnecessary, for our government dares not push us very hard for
   > exactly that reason.

   No wonder there's so much violence over there if half the people own
   guns... Hmm... kind of reminds me of that 'Trigger Happy' song...

It's not hardly that simple.  Household gun possession is
substantially greater in Switzerland (just about every ablebodied male
has a government issued full auto capable battle or assault rifle and
ammo, and must demonstrate proficiency every year or so, or take a
boot camp refresher course).  Israel also has a high gun posession
rate and a low crime rate. 

If you take the crime statistics of the US and subtract the South, we
have a not unusual for the industrialized world crime rate (even if
you include New York City before Republicans took control in 1994? and
started enforcing the laws).  It seems to be a cultural thing---even
subtracting gun violence, the South is very violent (and it's not a
racial thing either, the white on white crime rate is very high).

Very interestingly, there's been a big shift in the last decade in the
US towards allowing legal concealed carry of handguns (after the Civil
War it was banned in all of the South and many other states, to keep
the freedmen (former black slaves) and later immigrants in their
place, and originally only enforced against them); now more than half
the people in the country live in states where the authorities must
give good citizens licenses to carry concealed, and violent crimes
againt people in those states is dropping substantially.  (There's a
rise in property crimes at the same time, though; an acceptable
tradeoff in my book).

   >    Though that part in ID4 with the people on the news putting a
   >    ban on the people shooting at the alien spaceship ... THAT
   >    only reinforced American stereotypes!
   >    
   > Stereotypes have their utility; I didn't watch ID4, but we'd certainly
   > use our personal weapons on alien invaders.  I suspect smart aliens
   > would start with countries that have been disarmed by their
   > governments, like yours will be in short order....

   Thank Kamisama we won't end up like American with everyone and his dog
   (or half of them) having guns ... Guns in the hands of a lot of people
   mean that there's a greater change of morons getting guns, as well as
   psychos and other such people who shouldn't be near a gun. This means
   that here there will be a greater chance of morons and other such people
   having their guns taken OFF them! Yay! Guns are only for criminals and
   police and the military!

Just like Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, the People's Republic of
China, Cuba, etc. etc. etc.  10s of millions of disarmed people have
been slaughtered by their governments in this century (I estimate well
over 100 million, maybe over 200); I'll take my chances on a few
nutcases with guns over the prospect of me and mine getting herded
into a concentration camp without effective recourse.

You're government's "Australia Card" efforts would not have me
sanguine over the prospect of being disarmed.  I doubt you're lacking
would be totalitarians Down Under....

   >    Australia has Mormons, too ... though we all hate them...
   > Your intolerance is appalling.

   I guess you don't have them door knocking and never going away. They don't
   take 'No' for an answer. Same with Jehovah Witnesses...

And the police refuse to cart them away?

What's missing from this picture?

They're more polite in the US as a rule; as Heinlein said, an armed
society is a polite society, and people tend towards politeness in the
homes of others ("your home is your castle").  Although I suspect
you'd best not show them any weakness....

Ob fanfic: the SM fanfics of Chris Davies are taking the SM fanfic
genre in some very interesting and worthwhile directions.  Not to
mention being very well written.  I'm looking forward to more.

					- Harold