On Thu, 5 Sep 1996, Martin Bennett wrote:
On Thu, 5 Sep 1996, Caroline Ann Seawright wrote:
Thanks for the info. Thats better than I could have hoped for.
Now, one last question, Eastern Standard Time is about 14 hours behind Tokyo time, is that right?
Urrr. *American* Eastern Standard Time is about 14 hours behind Tokyo
time... *Australian* Eastern Standard Time is about nil hours behind
Tokyo time.
Oh come now...it was clear from context which he meant. He was posting
from the United States to a forum dominated by Americans. I suspect an
Australian posting to a list dominated mostly by Australians might have
asked for (say) Greenwich Meridian Time relative to Eastern Standard Time,
meaning Australian Eastern Standard Time, without any demands for
clarification, much less giggles on how ignorant and provincial
Australians are.
It's really funny when they say "Are you on the east/west coast?" to me.
I say, "Yep, on the east coast. Though more south-east." They don't seem
to understand that there is more than one east/west coast in the world.
When I eventually tell them what the time here is, they stop and blink at
me as if I said the sky was pink or something. It's not like America's the
center of the world or anything... :p
Again: most of these people are Americans (I presume you are chatting
on the 'net) who normally talk to Americans. When they ask on which coast
you live, they don't ask which coast of America, not because they are
stupid, ignorant or provincial, but because there's usually no need
because they generally talk to Americans, who, after all, are still the
biggest net-surfers. The idea is to eliminate redundant information.
Parallel: Suppose I am an American who having taken an interest in
things Australian has telnetted to a server in Australia where some
mostly Australian 'netters chat about whatever they chat about. I meet
someone. He asks where I live. If I say "on the north coast" he can be
forgiven, if I have not told him I live in America, for thinking I live
perhaps in the Northern Territory, near Darwin, perhaps, rather than in
Ohio where I actually live. (Yes, we have a north coast, along the Great
Lakes.) What is he to think then if he says, Thank God tomorrow's
Saturday, and I reply, No, it's Friday tomorrow? He could be forgiven for
being confused, not because he is stupid, but merely because I have
failed to give him information he does not normally need but in my case does.
(By the way, Miss Seawright, I wouldn't do that. I don't appreciate
your sense of humor. I try not to do things just to confirm to myself how
much smarter I am than the rest of the species.)
If you are trying to use a program to print out a paper that uses
certain defaults unless otherwise instructed by you, wish the program to
print out the paper according to some other parameters but fail to tell
the program, and the paper is printed out wrong, it is not the computer's
fault. It is yours for not telling it that information it reasonably
assumed for want of other information was not correct.
In short, Americans are much smarter than it amuses you to think. For
one thing, they value their time. They'd rather not waste it on conveying
information that the recipient doesn't need.
That's because to most merkens, the world is bounded by Canada, Mexico,
the Pacific Ocean and the Atlantic Ocean. As far as most are concerned,
there's nothing out beyond Hawaii. Blame their media and education for
being so insular.
(I'm not even going to bother repeating the rest of Mr. Bennett's and
Miss Seawright's American-bashing.)
Mr. Bennett, Miss Seawright, have you ever met or even _seen_ an
American that wasn't projected onto a television set?
I am from Ireland, I still consider myself Irish, I have lived in the
United States for seven years, and from what you've just said I am
completely convinced that you two have never even seen an American
except on the television, much less been here.
For your information, Mr. Bennett and Miss Seawright:
Not all Americans are provincial, inbred peasants. They know there's a
whole world out there. (They rule it, after all! BWAHAHAHAHA!) If
American were as insular as you say, this list would not exist. Ignorant
ultra-nationalist "patriots" such as you saw in _Independance Day_ are
objects of ridicule and contempt here. They are not, repeat _not_ the
majority in America. On the contrary, openness to other cultures has been
the rule rather than the exception, occasionally to the point of
absurdity. (Ever hear of "multiculturalism?" No, of course you haven't.
American cultural movements don't interest you. Why should they? America
has nothing of interest, right?) Americans just borrow the cultural
innovations of other nations and make them their own. Often the American
version's better than the original. (I _love_ Chicago-style pizza. What,
you don't know what that is? Poor dears.)
I have some news for you: ignorant, provincial morons live everywhere.
>From what I've heard you say, I suspect there's plenty of them in Australia.
As for our media, it's the most diverse in the world, catering to
every interest. Whatever your tastes, there's a publication or possibly
even a television channel that will cater to it. (There are cable channels
here dedicated solely to historical documentaries and public affairs, for
instance. I needn't even mention CNN, an American, not Australian or
Irish innovation.) And they're profitable. Americans take advantage of the
opportunity to learn about the world when they can. In Ireland? We have
only two television channels, both run by the government. They _suck._
(By the way, Irish TV, from my experience, did discuss American
affairs far more than American TV discusses Ireland on an average day,
but that's because what happens in Ireland affects America far less than
what happens in America affects Ireland--and the world. I suspect the
same is true for Australia. Americans do care what happens beyond their
borders when it honestly matters. If they didn't, they wouldn't get in so
many bloody wars and like it. :( )
I should mention that the variety of opinion in the American media is
as diverse as anywhere. If you look hard enough, you will find a
publication expressing one's own political opinions. Our unregulated
broadcast media is also the home of the most intense political debate in
the civilized world. If one does not like the social democrats on the
television, one can listen to the conservatives and libertarians talk on
local talk radio, where they hold sway. Would that the same were true in
Japan, where all newspapers express the same opinions and genuine debate
is practically non-existent. It's not quite as bad in Ireland, but the
government can and does keep political opinions incompatible with itself
off the radio and television. I suspect this is also done in Australia.
It shouldn't be.
Education? American universities are the best in the world. That's
why Japanese students come to study here, and not Americans in Japan.
(Japanese colleges are abysmal.) The private schools are also first-rate.
The public schools suck, but that's because they're beholden to the
teacher's unions who block any attempt to reform them. The Americans are
trying their best to make them better, trust me. (At least here the schools
don't shut down every year for a week because the teachers have gone on
strike _again_.)
(By the way, Miss Seawright, "it's" doesn't mean anything in standard
written English other than "it is". In English the neuter third person
possessive pronoun is "its". You owe the critic you informed otherwise an
apology. That means, mind you, that you will die in debt, because I don't
think I've ever seen you admitting when you were wrong in this forum or
any other on the Internet to which I have access. I don't expect you to
change, but I will tell you that your apparent belief that you are
always right is beginning to irritate me extremely, and probably many
others likewise. Just to eliminate any misunderstanding, I really do
mean it.)
Crime: most of our crime is in fact restricted to urban slums where
gainful employment has become impossible due to overtaxation by our
government of industry to support our army and our enormous old-age
pension system and welfare state. What we do here is avoid them. Most of
America is in fact quite a civilized place.
The government? It sucks. That much you have right. There are plenty of
Americans who would cheer if the White House went up in smoke. That's
because it causes most of America's problems by trying to solve them. So
Americans have increasingly restricted its activity, shrunk its army,
shrunk the welfare state, reduced regulation of industry, and so forth.
They're working on it.
Their popular culture, too, is popular the world over. Why? Because
it's far more universal in appeal than that of other nations. (My Irish
relations tell me that Australian soaps get more American by the day.
That's called competition.) You bet your life American movies are
consistently hits in Japan. (I can't speak about _Independance Day_--I
haven't seen it--but if you didn't like it there's no need to condemn the
whole American movie industry.) Trust me--those in charge of making
movies here do take the non-American market into account when they make
their films. The more they do that, the more money their films make. By
comparison, the Japanese animation market hardly seems to think of the
world outside Japan--which is why anime has so relatively few fans in the
English speaking world. British programming ends up restricted to
educational television or specialty channels, because American watching
it can't identify with the characters. _Doctor Who_'s attempt to start a
new life in America seems to have failed; I can only think that that was
due to the show's being far too fundamentally British (the Doctor, after
all, remained at base an Englishman even in the film for folks to enjoy
it, no matter how much they tried to "Americanize" it. American sci-fi
travels much better, though. I believe Miss Seawright is familiar with
_The X-Files._
(Side note: what foreign films and programming I have seen here
has invariably been dubbed. Only dubbed anime is ever shown on American
or British television. American programs? I was surprised when I went to
Israel this summer with a group from my university [the school paid my
bill, thank God] and got to see some Israeli TV. American shows are
broadcast there _subtitled._ It seems that abroad Americans may be
Americans without losing audiences. There was no need to dub _Star Trek_
into Hebrew, say, even though Picard (say) is an American in spite of
his French background, as all humans in that show at base really are;
Israelis could identify with them in any case without making Picard an
Israeli by dubbing him into Hebrew. If _Godzilla_, say, had not been dubbed
into English, however, it would never have gotten as big as it did. The
characters there had to be made into Americans--but once they were all
English sperakers could identify. If they could not there would need to
be different dubbing studios to dub anime into English for the benefit
of Americans, Canadians, Britons, Irishmen, Australians, New Zealanders,
South Africans, and so forth. Can you imagine six English dubs of Ranma
1/2, for instance? Thankfully, one American one seems to suit all
English-speakers just fine, recognizably American though it may be.)
The point? American popular culture is just fine, thank you. You don't
like it? Don't go to American movies. I should add Australian soaps never
were my cup of tea, either...
The Americans themselves? The ones I've met are generally pleasant,
hardworking, honest people. A bit too familiar for my taste, but then
that's their way of being friendly. I know that and accept it. And when
I mention I'm from Ireland (or they detect my accent) they're not
repulsed by my foreignness, but very curious to know about the land I
come from. Would that all nations were as accepting of others. (Shampoo
is a bimbo at least in part because the Japanese consider the Chinese
and all other foreigners to be a lower form of life.)
I tell you this because you two have made it perfectly clear you've
never met an American, much less ever been here or cared to learn a damn
thing about the place that might have made you doubt the widespread
belief that just because our government has done stupid things that
Americans are somehow a lower form of life.
There's more good than bad about America. And the bad they're working
on. I know this: I wouldn't go back to Ireland to live, muchless go to
Australia. And you couldn't pay me enough to live in Japan.
Oh. Yeah. You want to badmouth people you don't know beans about, keep
it to private e-mail. Don't say it was just a joke. Saying nasty things
about people in a public forum that aren't true isn't funny. Here they
call it slander.
When _I_ get upset to Americans as a group (and I do--I try not to,
though), I have the good manners to keep it to myself, at least. If I
were you I'd do the same thing.
- A citizen of the global village. {I wish I was a citizen of the
Joketsuzoku village mind you! ;) }
Here's a tip--learn a bit about the other inhabitants of the global
village before passing judgement on them.
By the way, Joketsuzoku is a Japanese word (meaning roughly "woman
warrior"). Before you go live in their village, learn the name of the
tribe in their own language. (I forget what they call themselves; it
begins with an N when transliterated, but I really couldn't tell you
just what it is. It might be in the Ranma FAQ. This I know--it isn't
Joketsuzoku.) Perhaps then they will accept you. I wouldn't try speaking
to them in Japanese--the Chinese have their own reasons for not liking
the Japanese, and God knows the last Japanese to come through the town
caused enough trouble. They'd probably kill you where you stood.
After all, many of Ranma's problems stemmed from not knowing much of
the local culture.
Moral: know before you go. If you want to go live with Shampoo's
people, Mr. Bennett, learn a bit about them first.
Paul Corrigan
pcorrig@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Who expected better from someone on an English language Japanese
animation list, and fears for Australia's future...