On Sun, 18 Aug 1996, Wayne Pillion wrote:

Orig> Warning to people who are reading this.  This is a rant on my part.  I do not
Orig> intend this to be a flame, though it may become a borderline one.  If you don't
Orig> want to read this, delete now.  Though most of you who will delete it are 
Orig> probably the ones I'm aiming this towards, so you'll miss what I'm trying to
Orig> say.

*smiles*  I didn't delete it. ;)

Orig> I've avoided this topic in the past, because it is one of the few the really 
Orig> annoys me and I didn't really want to add fuel to the fire.  As a mater of fact,
Orig> this sort of topic is one of the few I will usually delete without reading.
Orig> However, I have this to say.  Over this past summer, I have seen the ML move
Orig> several times closer to being on topic and relevant.  The spam, while it may
Orig> seem huge to some people, is only a fraction of what it used to be.  The 
Orig> signal to noise ratio is improving greatly, and I *STILL* see people trying
Orig> to kill it.  

This is true, since there used to be easily over three hundred posts ever
day or two and now it has dwindled quite a bit.  And there used to be
quite a bit more... spam.  I have over 60megs of emails that want to say
hi. ;)  Yup, I keep em.  dunno why, just do.  Actually... I know why...
it's because unlike other places, these posts have life in them.  Part of
the thinking process of the writers as much as the fanfics themselves.
But then again, that's just my opinion. ;)

Orig> I think one of the nicest aspects of this list is that we can get
Orig> together and be sociable, while expanding our literary talents in character
Orig> (ie. .sigs) interactions.  This aspect is one of the more interesting parts of 
Orig> the ML, and I for one would be sad to see it go.  Probably to the point where
Orig> I'd leave the list.  

another reason why I'm still here despite my screaming backup tapes. ;)
Sig chara intereactions, which develope into fanfics or stories are, I
believe, part of the creative writing process... if it were just fanfics
here, there'd be little free discussion on the more gray areas... 

And the social aspect is another, I too have met people where who I can
call friends. ;) And if they ever get close enough, I can give them a hug.
^_-

Orig> Fanfics are great, but i like to be able to interact with 
Orig> people and joke around.  I've met a number of good friends on this list that I 
Orig> probably wouldn't have if it weren't for the spammy interactions.  I do 
Orig> understand what you say about the noise, especially in the past, but I think 
Orig> your also not realizing what those of us who spam see in the ML.  The 'net is a 
Orig> good place where people can relax and unwind with others in ways that aren't 
Orig> possible in RL interactions.  


Orig> I find too many people starting to take things 
Orig> too seriously here, which is a major component in all of the arguments I've 
Orig> seen showing up on the 'net lately between people.  What I'm trying to say is 
Orig> that this is the 'net, not RL, so relax.  

Orig> Don't take things so seriously.
Orig> those who want to improve the signal/noise ratio have won some serious victories
Orig> in the past few months, so can't you be happy with what you've got and spare
Orig> the rest of us a lot of unnecessary headaches with all the arguing?  Thats
Orig> the only type of Spam that i find really annoying.  Right now the list is
Orig> between extremes, so can't we all be happy with what we've got now and stop
Orig> trying to dominate the list with our own pet views of how things should be?
Orig> The only one here who has that right is White Wolf.  he is the one who should
Orig> decide the right signal/noise ratio, not the rest of us.

True, but let's not forget that there are Real people behind the text and
Real feelings.  Those things should be taken into account.  

Not everyone here is from the same mould, thank the powers that be for
that.  Some of us are quite young... fifteen and below or so... others
quite mature in age, forty and above perhaps, and many in between.  We
each have different expectations.

For those who want spam to vanish, that would be a truly sad thing.
Remember those 200 something members? Well, I'm sure that those who aren't
posting all the time are probably either writing their fanfics or doing
something else.  If only the finished fanfics were sent here, then this
would be raac, sterile and rather empty a good deal of the time.

On the other hand, if it were all spam, then much would be chaos and it
would achieve little.  Being more a social place than a place to share
ideas and thoughts and jokes. ;)  IRC or perhaps MUD/MUSH's are good for
that, but some places don't allow that kind of internet usage.  Such as
school campuses.  And since those who are here who spam usually spam about
something related to fanfics, which more than once, the spurrings of a
spammer have contributed to ideas for new fanfics, it isn't so high a
cost, but then again, that's for more than one to decide.

Right now, we have a relatively low to medium spam content.  I personally
don't delete, I simply browse as the chance allows.  But this list offers
that chance to learn and enrichen and broaden one's views through the
views of others.  Spammage is a medium of communication, despite it's rap.

Btw, I've noticed the attitude of some posters.  Some have a rather
business like tone... and to them, I'd say that most of the time, that
tone feels cold and often causes more flames and hurt feelings than carry
across ideas to others.  Especially if the readers are not
business-persons or emotionally hardened like a brick. But oh well, live
and learn as the saying goes.  

Orig> My apologies to everybody for this rant, but its been building up in me for
Orig> a while.

*smiles* I'm sure it has for quite a few from all sides of the issue.  But
I prefer the middleground as well.  I like the list with it's spam traffic
moreso than without.  If I wanted that, I'd go with raac and it's
sterility... *shivers* I prefer people. ;)

Orig> > --
Orig> > Scott Johnson |
Orig> > zagyg@io.com  |            This space intentionally left blank.

Scott, no hard feelings or flames intended, but the list really has
lowered in spam content.  And there IS a delete key. And the list is
populated by quite a few people where the voice of the group counts.  The
voice of wwolf's most of all.

Orig> Wayne Pillion
Orig> stargaze@world.std.com
Orig> starman@expert.cc.purdue.edu


Wing. [I think my fanfic will be late again. -_-]

*******************************************************************
       @}-,-'-----             Dark and Light (version 1 of many)
*******************************************************************
* Another ray of light      *  The final ray of light             *
* Another wonderous sight   *  The horrid final sight             * 
* Filled with hope          *  Failing hope                       *
* And a child's delight     *  And overcome with childlike fright *
*******************************************************************
  wwong8@calstatela.edu        <currently no web page>
*******************************************************************