From: Damon Jason Casale, scyth+@andrew.cmu.edu
Excerpts from mail.fanfic: 24-Apr-96 Re: [FanFic] Overreactions by Kent
Magami@hsonline.net
Feeling rather down tonight, I mentioned on IRC that "I hope the sig war
gets killed on the FFML". The reactions, or rather, overreactions, I got
were none too pleasant. After explaining that I'd sent a message to the
list in general, calling for at least a toning down of the sig war and
related spam, a couple of very vociferous complainers hammered at me with
things along the lines of:
I would like to on record as saying that I was one of those complainers
Damon quotes below. I would like to apologize to Damon for getting so hot
under the collar. I had been depressed earlier in the day, the sigging we
were doing had finally cheered me up, and your little announcement slammed
me right back into depression again. Having calmed down somewhat and
having read this post through, I begin to understand more of what you were
driving at. Comments follow.
Thanks for understanding. I'm glad I didn't make an enemy, then.
I'm afraid I might also have been considered one of the complainers on
IRC that night, though I tried to keep from taking sides. I, too, was
having a pretty bad night (and it's been a bad week as well, for reasons
I won't go into unless anyone wants). And, like Kent, I'd been cheered up
by being able to let go and be silly for a while, just having fun. I'm
sorry I wasn't really in the mood to discuss fanfic writing, as you
obviously were, and I probably should have suggested splitting off a new
channel -- so that we could play around and you could discuss writing,
without getting in each others' way. And some of us (myself included)
weren't as polite as we should have been when you wanted to discuss
writing.
At the same time... I hate to say it, but you were not terribly polite
either, from my POV. I'd have to go back and re-read that part of the log
(which I don't really want to do at the moment, the memory's painful
enough right now) to re-confirm, but the impression I got then was that
you were almost insisting that we stop, and being self-righteous about
it. In that context, saying "I hope the sig war gets killed on the FFML"
was at least a little inflammatory. That might not have been what you
intended, and I'm sorry if that's the case, but it's the way you came
across to me. It seemed like you were in a bad mood, and I was in a bad
mood held off mainly by the warring, and others were already in bad
moods... so that's why I suggested both sides were overreacting, thought
everyone would benefit from time to cool down, and why I waited until now
to reply to the thread.
Because the thing I'm most worried about is the way this is poisoning our
atmosphere. I haven't been around here as long as many (most?) of you, so
I'm not sure I'm fit to judge. But I've seen a group of people that were
having fun here go to making bitter accusations within the space of a
couple of days. And that hurts. It was bad enough to see the bile from
Roy Rim, who wasn't a regular poster. It's even worse seeing something
like it from regular participants.
Can we *all* take a step back, take a deep breath, and agree to cool down
for a little while, before posting in anger or frustration? I don't
pretend for a moment that this will fix the underlying problems... but I
hope we can at least be civil about discussing them, and -- as you say --
avoid making enemies. We've already talked about having consideration for
others; let's try and include posting angry comments in this
consideration, OK?
I'm not going to point any fingers. I'm going to ask, POLITELY, like
WWolf did, that you guys keep it under control. I'm not out to make
enemies (as it seems I have, unfortunately),
No, not enemies. I was upset, and reacted harshly (perhaps), but I
hardly think that makes us enemies.
Okay, glad to hear that. Firehawke, on the other hand, seemed to take
it a lot worse than you did, for which I'm saddened.
This is why I think it would have been a really good idea if everyone had
taken the time to cool down before reacting. If it had just been the post
on the ML, I doubt it would have been a violent or poisonous fight. If
you had just said on IRC that you were worried (or even upset) about the
levels of spam on the ML, that you had posted about it, and that you
hoped we would read the post and think about it, again things might have
been all right. (Especially if we'd all decided to do that with cooler
and less tired minds.) But you seemed (please forgive me if I'm putting
words in your mouth) to be upset and frustrated, in that mood you said
you hoped WW'd kill the sig war, and that touched off the spark. And with
some of us also in bad moods, we overreacted instead of responding
calmly... and that just made things worse. Talking in anger is something
I think we were all guilty of, and I hope we can all remember it and
avoid a blowup again.
I started here back in January (maybe February--I honestly can't
remember right now), and I've never really had a problem with spam. I
like watching the chatter between some people (my fellow Sig Warriors, to
name a few), even if I'm not participating in the thread. In addition,
many of the "Spamfics" are quite entertaining in their own right. IMHO,
that's what fanfics are about, anyway--entertainment. I was concerned
that some of what I feel makes the ML so enjoyable for me was being
threatened. Naturally, I reacted.
That, I can understand. I was not happy about the Poker Spam(fic) being
told to leave the list, but I could understand why WWolf asked us to do
that. I enjoyed it a lot (of course, that was when I had the time to
contribute; I don't seem to have nearly as much free time any more 8( ),
but I could recognize that there were plenty of people on the list who
did not. Now that the situation is reversed (I don't like the sig war,
but I know that there are people on the list who do), I thought it at
least reasonable to suggest either starting a separate ML for it, like
we did with the Poker Spam, or toning it down so it doesn't dominate the
list. After glancing over my email from last night, it looks like it's
been toned down a great deal already, for which I'm grateful.
Part of the problem here is that this time there wasn't one easily
splittable thread. There's been the ongoing Barney/dimensional warring
thread, which spawned Balisu's Muse as a separate and distinct thread;
there's the joking back and forth about A-Kon and various hypothetical
revenges there; there's the actual Sig War thread and the Wedding
thread... Not counting Robma's Sig War summary posts, because I think
organized and written out as digests, they *do* form parts of a fanfic
story. (Hey, it's set in Nerima, the Ranma gang appear as peripheral
characters...)
That's why it's hard to say "Split it off into another ML" -- any one of
the threads would probably be tolerable on its own to those who don't
like it, none of the threads is probably large enough (or long-duration
enough) to support its own ML, and I'm not sure they're related enough to
group them together in an ML. (Though I could be wrong.)
I know you guys just can't stop chattering. There's no way to do that
outside of a moderated ML, as someone commented.
"You can't get rid of all of the spam. The only way to do that is to
have a moderated ML."
I'm not asking for the spam to cease altogether. I enjoy it myself. But
the amount of volume it's creating is causing problems for just about
everyone. WWolf still has the same bandwidth problems, only now they're
on his own machine. Those FFMLers with 500 k and 1 Meg accounts probably
aren't too happy, either. I'm not saying this only because of the size
of their accounts, but because they can delete a 200 k fanfic they aren't
interested in a lot easier than 200 1 k spams, and in a lot less time.
So again. I'm not asking for the spam to cease. I'm asking for a
little common courtesy and respect. I'm sure that's not too much to
ask.
It's not to much to ask, but I'm not sure how workable it is in practice
if you're serious about not wanting to close down all spam. What is
"worthwhile" or "fun" spam, and what is "junk spam"? I think neither of
us want tons of thoughtless posts... but I at least don't want to see
people huddled in self-censorship, too worried or nervous to post
*anything* in lighthearted fun. There's a line to be drawn between these
two extremes, but I'm not at all sure where to draw it -- and as a
result, I'm leaning more towards the latter position. Some of the
carefree nature of the ML has been killed for me, and I mourn that.
Another part of the "poisoning of the atmosphere" that I talked about
above. I hope that in time this will blow over, and a happy medium can be
worked out... so that we can relax and have fun again, without looking
over our shoulders.
Again, if you bothered reading this far without deleting my post,
thanks for listening to me rant.
No problem. I felt I owed you that much, at least. I hope you take
my own comments into account.
I hope everyone can at least take the comments about "posting in anger"
to heart. It looked like you were already frustrated and upset, so I
figured that was at least part of what was talking, and tried not to take
it personally. But I really wished that part hadn't been talking at all.
And I'm probably as guilty of this as anyone else... so please, call me
on it if I am! I promise to try and follow my own advice. :)
Travis Butler
(The Professor, formerly of Myth and Magick!, Lawrence, KS;
tbutler@tfs.net, now from the Wandering Powerbook;
<http://www.tfs.net/personal/tbutler/>;
Mac page <http://www.tfs.net/business/tbutler/>)
..Cats are the proof of a higher purpose to the universe.