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DB Sommer <sommert@connecttime.net> wrote:

%Some people actual results are what counts. 

More like visible spectacles. ;)

%In any event, Man Beast will be changing operations
somewhat in the near future.

Makes sense
 
% Footnote. Overrider is responsible for the influx of
cash. More on that later.

Well, since she has an ability to override computers
(including those of companies or banks) that does make
sense, but if there's an entire race of Phantom Cats
with those abilities how come they haven't already
subjugated humanity through spreading transaction
chaos and crashing world economies in the information
age?

% The Handbook has that. I should post the updated
version of it now that Act II is done. If they aren't
in there, they're almost certainly originals.

I didn't know about the handbook. Will check.

% He's been a bt traumatized by everything. And one
thing the HE was infamous for was not using humans to
help him outside of his very earliest days. There was
a guy that claimed he worked for him, a knockoff
called the High Technition, that was never validated.

Well, there were Jessica Drew's parents, Nathaniel
Essex & those New Immortals (name?) guys. He also
allied with the White Tiger's Heroes for Hire, so he
doesn't seem entirely averse to human
aides/bodyguards, more like that he prefers evolved
animals who owe him everything and thus may betray him
less frequently. If Reed Richards applied for
apprenticeship I think HE would accept the help. ;)

% Yep. He talks good, telling people what they want to
hear. As a general rule, MB preferred using minions
and manipulations to personal confrontation, though he
wasn't above getting down and dirty when the situation
called for it.

Yup

% No. He wants one already in the movement, though
he'll be relying on the Ani Men more than anything.

He's not planning for scientology-style recruitment &
brainwashing? Unwise, since the Ani-Men + Overrider
aren't much in terms of hig-power cannon fodder.

% No. He does have the ability to use insidiously
powerful mental blasts, though they are physical in
nature.

Ok

% We'll see later when he tells the reader of his
scheme. :)

No 4'th wall breaking I hope? ;)

Devolving all humans into lower primates would also
work of course and could be presented in a very
amusing fashion. ;)

(Initially at least. Then all the frenzied apes would
start to kill each other)

% Again that will be coming up in the future chapters.
Not the next one, which involves the Avengers not
present here, but the ones after that

This would swiftly take care of his problem with lack
of firepower.

'Oh yes, the times are changing, as you're about

 > to find out, you tasty litters of cowering prey.
 > You'll get what's coming to you for trying to get
 > ahead of a true predator in the evolutionary food
 > chain.'

% In this universe MB's motivations are slightly
different (though he's still insane and damn near a
personification of evil as you can get). 

I don't qualify his category of absolute evil as
insane. People with strong compulsive disorders,
neuroses, terrified manias, lack of touch with
reality, uncontrolled emotional responses and no
understanding of what they're doing have the insanity
excuse.  His type is frighteningly conscious,
calculating, sane and self-centered to the point of
completely lacking any semblance of conscience or
compassion. I understand him as a hardcore
social-Darwinist, which is completely reasonable
(though very one-sided) from a purely objectivist
standpoint, but still makes people into about as
genuine monsters as humanly (or in MB's case,
inhumanly) possible.

%I'll go ahead and say it now since he'll be saying it
at some point in the future chapters, but basically
the HE discovered that humanity was given a
evolutionary boost by the Celestials. MB also
discovered this, which is why he refers to them as
genetic aberrations.

% The opening of Act IV will reveal what happened to
the Eternals and Youma, who were also created at the
same time.

The Celestials & Eternals are part of your world? Ok,
as long as you don't think they will overshadow or
complicate everything else. Much like some of
Starlin's or Gruenwald's creations their mood and
themes never seemed to quite fit into the MU proper.  

I think the official version is that the Celestials
didn't immediately boost primate evolution for the
head branch (the Eternals & Deviants not included),
but rather installed the potential for eventually
developing superhuman abilities, so it could
ultimately birth new Celestials. Humanity built the
foundations of civilization (up to now) on its own,
but its later phase of development with different
types of mutation was another matter.

 > Tofu could play the role of Doc Samson to hypnotise
 > the very similar personalities into merging.
 > An amusing counter to Banner's and his alter ego's
 > mutual antagonism would be if Ryouga and Hulk met
up
 > on an astral plane and immediately became best
 > friends. :D

% Heh.

 Well, I think it makes sense. Feel free to use it. ;)

% Nah. This is the same team from 'What if the FF had
no Super Powers' with a different name, which predated
the Amalgam xover.

Ok

 It was three years ago that a backstabbing jerk

 > named Ranma Saotome backstabbed me.

 > Heh.

% And yes, the repetition there was deliberate.

I noticed. Though I'm not one to talk. When not paying
attention I sometimes forget that a word was used just
previously.

% No. Ranma's not all that forward planning, and at
that age, not that bright either.

Nope he isn't. Though he seems to cause some damage by
blundering through life.

% Back then, physical. He was being taught by Genma.
But it mostly consisted of 'the strong help the weak
and don't take from them even if it would be easier.'
kind of thing.

Yeah, but that particular phrasing always bothers me
whenever I hear it. It's like someone first helps you
out, then goes forward and states 'Well, you can't
help for being such an inferior, useless and pathetic
subhuman compared to the magnificence of myself. Heck
I must be better than you, no matter your other
qualities, I have bigger muscles. Oh well, time for my
daily relationship with the bathroom mirror. Ta-ta!' 

When people start to assist others simply to feel
superior to those they help it starts to loose all
meaning. They do some good work but devote it to the
cause of promoting supremacism basically. Better to
use the phrase 'Protect the innocent' or something
similar to get the message across correctly and avoid
misunderstandings. I think Gosunkugi made a similar
observation about Ranma's expression in a part of
Defending.

% Nononononono. Mutants most definitely exist as
mutants here. In fact that's a major plot point later
on in this arc. Wolverine and Sabertooth were already
mentioned (and dead) as proof of canon mutants. The
renaming of some as 'Alice's was to mute the
negativity behind the name.

Gotcha. 

I like the idea of letting lots of differing groups go
to the same school. A few odd inhumans, mutants,
alices, anime or marvel based aliens & magical or
engineered races intermingling in the same class
basically. I'd pay to watch that. ;)

% Yeah. For all the changes in Ranma, history happened
largely the same way anyhow.

Yup

 > On the other hand it's not like Ranma or most
others
 > wouldn't know that Ryouga has brain damage in that
 > area, so it's hardly unexpected or something he
 > could help.

% Heh

Well, it's not that uncommon in real life, so physical
or genetic produced brain damage leading to a
selective severe autism would describe his limitation
perfectly.

% I don't think Ryouga was aware of it until later. It
was just one more thing added to the list when he
found out..

It's vague for me too, but I think it was a comical
scene where he was about to forgive Ranma due to being
convinced that he should went at the girl who got him
cursed instead. The next moment he came to think of
that she looked extremely similar to Ranma's new form
and that she had a pet panda. :D
 
% And in deference, Ryouga's only now learning of his
emerald alter ego. 

Yup

%And he's not all that worked up about changing. I
should have mentioned again that turning into the Hulk
actually ends up draining a lot of his anger in his
normal body. Changing is actually theraputic for
Ryouga. 

Which fits in with Hulk's canon concept.

%I implied it in the 'What's for dinner chapter in Act
II. I'll have to mention it again to remind the
reader.

Good call

%Yeah, I remember pacemakers can throw him as well as
compulsive liars.

Mostly pacemakers I think. It was just a note that you
may want to change the sentence from 'reading body
language' to 'reading heartbeat'. Not that it's
necessary with Ryouga of course. ;)

% Thanks. And no, I haven't. I should get back to him
as I was enjoying the story.

Me too. The entire cast is handled extremely spot-on.
With the exception of being much harder on Kasumi than
I would have been (handling her like a lobotomized
ditz, rather than serene & perceptive) the writer
observes and analyses in patterns similar to my own.

% I should also note the only thing I have to do with
Defending is okaying the use of characters. Plot and
characterizations are all David's doing. I get a
little jealous sometimes because of his writing, which
at times I find better than mine.

I think they complement each other. I used to enjoy
Defending more but I've switched in your favor lately.
You're a bit better at fitting in several clever
developments and sub-plots into a tight space. He's a
bit better at handling the philosophical aspects.
You're both great at humor, though his has a more
sarcastic angle and yours leans toward parody.  

My expected only complaint is that he severely
de-powers the Hulk even more than you do.  Hulk gets
scared from Gosunkugi burning down a tree? Bah! Blow
up a planet and we'll talk. ;)

Better make that 'radiation theorists'.

 > 'Theorists limited to a particular wavelength
 > spectra of light' sounds pretty silly, comic book
or
 > no.

% Heh

Well, it sort of bothered me that many of the people
using the term didn't even seem to know where it
originated. ;)

% No, I didn't. He's a Japanese native in anime canon.
Still not saying who he is. That's a long time coming.

Ok

Wait a minute... I remember skimming an introduction

 > text to an anime show based on this premise a while
 > back. A schoolboy skipping back and forth in time
over
 > the summer break to prevent his girlfriend from
dying
 > I believe.

% I read a blurb for it. But it was only 2 or 3 eps
long, and reviews for it said it was just done way too
quickly and not that good, so I skipped it.

Me too. So it didn't inspire your decision? It was
just a Ravonna reference?

% Not like I have any shortage of things to watch,
just little time to do it I'm finally finishing up
Trinity Blood, which I had laying around for over a
year and at last got around to watching the last few
weeks.

I have lots of shows I'd like to sit down and watch,
but most turn into disappointments (some unexpectedly
so. I'm still perplexed that Tenchi OAV 3 wasn't any
better than it was) or are too damn long (Full Metal
Alchemist) for me to get the time.

% I am playing a little loose, but not in some ways
either. I'll eventually build up to his identity as he
becomes more panicked as time begins to run out. Right
now he still has lots of breathing room to change
things the way he wants.

Ok, so is he a character you've previously introduced
in a pre-Kang guise?

% He thinks he can. In any event he's basically only
trying to prevent one event in such a way as to not
negate his existence as Kang. 

Yeah, but his logic is all off. Even if he avoids
affecting himself directly the chaos butterfly
indirect consequences would still cause many
paradoxes. It's easier to say that he's affecting a
timeline parallel to his point of origin.

%Everything else can go to hell as far as he's
concerned. Of course, that might be a problem itself
as well

 Yup

% In the original Invaders series? It's been so long
I've forgotten those. If it was in the updated version
of them, I skipped it due to bad artwork.

% He was incredibly generic in appearance, and the
only time i recall him being seen outside of WWII was
when the Thin Man killed him in the modern era in
Marvel Comics Presents.

It was in the update. I checked out a few issues,
despite the bad artwork. My memory is a bit diffuse
due to the series being unmemorable. Agent Axis
returned as a hive-intelligence for a flying swarm of
super-soldiers. Thin Man then somehow found a way to
torture his core to death several times over to
extract information and revenge at the same time.

% As to MM and WW, I'm thinking they probably didn't
exist here. One complication that came about due to
Steve Rogers not getting the Super Soldier formula was
that a lot of other people didn't try to put
everything they could into their own SS programs since
they didn't know if it could be done. In the canon
universe, Captain America was living proof it could
succeed, so everyone tried making their own, which is
how there was MM, WW, the 50's Cap, Victorious, the
version that helped create the Man Thing, the man
named 'X' (from Power Man), etc, etc. :)

Yeah, I expected as much, but I still loved Byrne's
designs for them (bleh for Master Man II/Nacht
though). They're guys you love to see the heroes pound
on without being pushovers. They were both near
Namor's level I recall.

%Nowhere near it. Actually, they were all pretty
cheesy. One of them was just a big bomb in the shape
of the Red Skull's head. ^_^

I'm afraid I only saw the handbook entry for the
orange & purple one. I recall that it didn't have all
that impressive statistics.

Smooth idea for a set-up. :)

% Thanks.

Well, I like the concept a lot.

 > However transporting Kang in space as well as time
 > without any explanation to how the robots were
hidden
 > below Kuno Manor destroys a bit of it.

% I thought I set it up well. Kang has always been
able to teleport anywhere as well as time travel. And
the Kunou mentioned in the past is obviously an
ancestor of Kodachi's, and burying it is mentioned.
The 
location of Avenger's Mansion and who owns it is
public knowledge, as evidenced by all the super
villains that have been captured there, as I mentioned
in the Hercules chapter. Not sure what was missing.

I don't recall him teleporting and switching time
period at the same time though.  In any case, no
offense intended. I'm just personally biased towards
the idea of standing at the same spot with appropriate
notes about changes in the neighborhood. It has a more
stylish flair to me, since it emphasizes the
time-travelling notion further.  The rest were just
suggestions about how you could set that up. 
Admittedly it could turn into more of a bother than
it's worth.

% There was only one 4th Sleeper. It was only
dangerous in that it could trigger miniture volcano
anywhere, and could turn ethereal, like the Vision. He
was pretty sure with surprise he could kill, if not
all of them, at least some.

% Actually the original version I was going to come up
with was more comedic in nature. Agent Axis kidnapped
Howard Stark, who created the much more dangerous
Arsenal robot, which had been buried in the canon 
version of Avengers Mansion. Only in this version
Arsenal had no decent weapons due to insufficient
money from the cost of the war, had to dig its way out
of its chamber, which collapsed upon him due to
substandard 
materials, and was basically nearly destroyed by the
time it emerged in the Ranmaverse Avengers mansion. I
think this worked out better, though.

Arsenal is tough enough to keep either Thor or Hulk
busy for a little while, but I think it turned out
quite well despite the weak adversary.  I liked the
WWII sequence and can't think of any other dangerous
nazi robots to use in its stead. 

You could insert a reference that Kang regretted that
he couldn't find more than one robot if he's not
supposed to look like an overconfident b-villain. All
that work and clever set-up… for a single Sleeper…
and he was still entirely certain of success.  

Well, it's not nuclear fire and thus not nearly

 > enough to bother the Hulk. Mjolnir/MjÃlner should
 > protect Thor as well. Good trap othervise. There's
a
 > difference between straight battle and an
unexpected
 > raid after all and Hulk&Thor don't constitute a
team
 > by themselves (and thus presumably won't cause the
 > accident Kang worries about).

% Yep. Good call.

I caught on eventually. ;)

% The whole Spragg thing is just too wonderful to
forget.

Not to mention that he smashes mountains to pieces all
the time. :)

% In a way, I am sorry I haven't had the
time/resources to keep up a lot of Marvel titles, as I
saw a resurgence in the pre FF monster lately. A
retcon with Ulysses Bloodstone (A decent character
that should never had been killed, and miraculously
stayed dead) and Doc Druid hunting some classic
monsters way back when. Something with Fin Fang Foom,
and a number of others.

You're thinking of the Monster Hunters in Roger
Stern's Marvel Universe series.  I think it's a shame
that it was put down. Ulysses Bloodstone was replaced
by his hereto-unknown daughter Else, a Lara Croft
knock-off. :(

% It's real sneaky though and tricks him again. ^_^

Yup, the readers are just waiting for Hulk to get a
solid fist in the face after reading that sentence. ;)

% Thanks. Hulk dialogue lends itself to humor. He's
like a big, eager child a lot of the time, and kids do
say the silliest things.

Yup, you're handling him perfectly in that regard

% True. He'll go on the backburner again for a while
as we focus on the main villains in this arc. The only
other planned 'delay' is when the mysterious business
woman gets fed up with the Avengers screwing up her
schemes and hires a pair of assassins to kill them.
That one will have long term effects on one of the
characters as well. I neat twist I think people will
enjoy.

The owner of the Super Adaptoid? Why not just let it
kill all of them? Or is it Madame Tofu Hydra (the
vegetarian alternative for Greek heroes ;) )?

% Nah. They aren't run by them. More on the PC's
shortly. They'll tie 
in to the Avegers fate on more than one front later.

I meant another organization. A parallel youkai (or
another anime-centered concept, since Inu-Yasha is
taken) liberation front comprised of familiar faces
from said species would be amusing as future 1-shot
Avengers opponents. :)

% No, the wonton cruelty was in the form of being
tortured with soup. ^_^

Yeah but it's crueler to turn them into wonton soup.
;)

% Actually there will be a number of very familiar
American heroes that will pop up eventually. But not
until several acts from now.

Ok. I prefer if you anime-ify as many as possible
though. It's the main charm of this series and you
haven't even cowered all the Ranma characters yet. :)

% Actually Nova's always been underutilized, and
Richard Rider's later character could have made for
great reading, since he turned into a bit of a slacker
horndog as he got older. Bad writing and then Erik
Larsen 
messed up the two attempts to solo him again. I saw he
has a new title out, but since it's only tied to an
interstellar storyline, it'll be a short run.

I kind of liked Larsen, but that may be due to never
reading the original run.

Btw, I read that Nova's the star of the event so it
may be worth checking out. On the other hand Keith
Giffen is handling it and he's seldom very good when
not paired with a complimenting writer (like JM
DeMatteis). He completely butchered and twisted around
the English translation of Battle Royale to suit his
biases rather than those of the original authors for
one.

% Only lately. Originally he was a pretty smart guy.
In any case he'd be familiar enough to be mentioned
with gamma energy, which was the criteria for the ones
Octavius mentioned.

When small (and visiting the country) I read a large
b&w Danish anniversary reprint of several 'classic'
Marvel books. One of the stories featured an old fight
between Wrecking Crew, Iron Fist & Captain America and
I think Franklin was handled like just another grunt
there, which I believe was his second or third
appearance. I thought the engineering skills were
added later to flesh him out?

% No. He'll be seeking something to prolong his life
again, as his aging was only cut by a third and he's
starting to feel old.

Well, if all 3 were born around the 1910-1920 that
would make him/them 25-35 in 1945 with aging slowed
down to a third during the next 60 years, so 45-55
physically then with 60-150 years left depending on
current age and if he lives to be '75' or '95'. That's
not so shabby by human standards, but if he thought
that a serum was responsible the first time why not
find another?
 
 % The other three consisted of an actual giant robot,
a giant jet pack, and the Skull head shaped bomb. They
combined into one big Doomsday Device. Kirby and Lee
had fun with Cap back then.

Sounds fun. Was this during Cap's original 40's run or
in flashbacks during the revival later on? How did the
Doomsday device composite compare in effectiveness to
the 4'th Sleeper?

%It was a crystal transceiver that responded to
emotions. Sharon Carter had it in her hand and, when
she became frightened that Cap was going to be killed
by the 4th Sleeper (he was getting his ass royally
kicked) the fear was transmitted to it and it weakened
to the point it seemed to dissipate from its ethereal
power. In later years it was revealed it was still
whole, and the Red Skull retrieved it, though its
volcano powers no longer worked.

That was lame I'll admit, but not quite Sailor Moon
level. ;)

% Heh. Looked over some of the old Caps since I needed
to read how the 4th Sleeper worked. Sharon Carter back
then went between two extremes. Sometimes she was a
damsel in distress, while other times she was a 
highly competent SHIELD agent that could be quite
ruthless when it came to completing a mission. Now
she's been modernized into a fairly unlikable bitch. 

That was mostly Waid's doing. I have no idea what Cap
saw in her during this time? However Claremont was the
one who turned unsympathetic bloodthirsty
über-bitches fashionable back with Ms ("If I have to
sacrifice me you and all your hundreds of innocent
passengers to stop the Super-Skrull then I'll do so
without a second thought!') Marvel and the later parts
of his X-Men run. Heck, he even sympathized with
Mystique, who was nearly pure evil as far as I picked
apart and deciphered her.  In any case Ed Brubaker has
managed to salvage Sharon into turning likeable
without being wimpy again.

% Then again, Cap probably has the worst cast of love
interests of any Marvel character due to blandness.
Tony Stark probably had the best, and in Stark's case,
he slept with damn near all of them. One thing Marvel
did do with Tony was have him really be a playboy and
end up in the sack with a lot of women.

I don't think Cap is bland when handled well, as in
the Roger Stern or current Brubaker run. Like Superman
he's simply pure good/completely virtuous, which too
many writers assume automatically means 'really
simpleminded'. It's all about how well the authors
understand the characters and great complexity,
experience and acute perspective can be achieved
without dirtying them down in the Frank Miller
fashion. See Superman #775 for example.

% Thanks for the comments. They are greatly
appreciated.

A pleasure as always

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