Subject: [FFML] Re: [Fanfic][Ranma/multi] A Mother's Love - chapter 2
From: "Thermopyle" <thermopyle@tds.net>
Date: 9/5/2003, 4:10 PM
To: "Philip Bloom" <dracos12@hotmail.com>, "Mark Shurtleff" <gaijin@sfcmd.com>
CC: <ffml@anifics.com>



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Shurtleff" <gaijin@sfcmd.com>
To: "Philip Bloom" <dracos12@hotmail.com>
Cc: <ffml@anifics.com>
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 2:53 AM
Subject: [FFML] Re: [Fanfic][Ranma/multi] A Mother's Love - chapter 2



At 05:42 AM 9/5/2003 +0000, Philip Bloom wrote:
*scratches his head* A well written fic marred by a few choice
problems
that run throughout it.  The most easily fixed and most thoroughly
ingrained is the extraneous character bashing that runs throughout
it.  You go so far to bedevil most the cast that you make it hard
to
believe in the very characters you are speaking through.  I mean,
look at
how you've painted Nodoka's logic line.  According to her Genma has
absolutely no traits of merit at all and never has.  She actively
reminisces about how she'd have to sell her adjecent properties (2?
I'm
assuming that's a misnomer, as owning two houses in Tokyo would put
Nodoka
as quite wealthly and also well out of the whole worrying about
food costs
for two-three people bracket) because he ate and drank so much.
Now,
traditionally, we can picture Nodoka as at least swayed in some
fashion by
Genma in their youth (even if you decide he's a devil now), but you
don't
even allow for that which raises the question: "If she knew from
the get
go he was worthless trash, why marry him?  If she can't even think
of a
kind thought regarding him, why in the world would she entrust her
son to
him?  etc."  What makes it even more mind boggling to me is that
the
primary evil laid at Genma's feet (and Nodoka's great 'mistake' of
sending
Ranma off with him) is that Ranma is supposed to be 'broken'.
He's,
according to Nodoka, an uncouth, rude individual who has
overbearing pride
and is only good at the martial arts.  To be perfectly clear:
"Ranma was
brash, egotistical, insensitive, unobservant in anything not
directly
related to the Art, and horribly insecure. All in all, a total
disaster
just waiting to happen."

Not actually a problem except...you don't portray him like this at
all.  Thus far in your fic he's come across as, at worst, a well
adjusted
teenager or, at best, a generally chivilaric(sp) sort.  The only
instance
I noticed in two chapters to even indicate any of what you were
saying was
with Kuno, and even then, it was overshadowed by how much it was
written
to be a good and just action.  You basically all but tell us Kuno
deserved
it after the whole charade with the steel blade.

ASIDE: What was with that anyhow?  This is a cast that practically
tears
through walls with toothpicks.  Beside the fact that there's been
far more
deadly weaponry revealed by other characters and it's not made
something
of, there's no reason to presume that a steel blade in Kuno's hands
would
be significantly more dangerous.  I mean, he's able to cleave
through
solid stone with a wood one.

Basically, you have the fic relying on Ranma being one thing as a
premise
in it, and then portray Ranma to be quite different from your
premise.  This, by association, draws weaknesses to your other
troublesome
'premise' (the overly demonic Genma utilized as a plot device to
explain
the sudden cut off from Nerima), and then the combination makes the
whole
fic seem weak.  It's hard to take Nodoka seriously after she's
recited the
logic above.

Another issue I have with the fic is the supernatural aspect
surrounding
Nodoka.  I'd suggest it's a bit too much, at least in context of
how much
it's developed compared to how quickly it's trotted out.  In a
meger two
short chapters we have it revealed that Nodoka is supposedly a
supreme
sword fighter, has an incredibly wealthy family which spans the
globe, has
happosai (who's really her older brother in disguise) under her
thumb, has
another sister who both is an expert on the amazons and an expert
in magic
(to at least the degree that she's capable of remaking a house in
an
instant).  I think I got it all, but don't you think this is a
touch much
to reveal in two short chapters?  You are trotting the borderline
between
outright contrivance and reasonable plot twist, and at least for
me, you
seem to be well on the wrong side of that border.

Anyhow, just one last comment before I turn in, this one regarding
something that flat out confused me in chapter 1.

***
Ranma rested his chin on his hands and slumped further into his
cushion.
"Yeah. Kasumi is like a big sister to me, she's always so nice to
everyone.
Nabiki? Blech, I'd rather kiss a viper than have anything to do
with her;
she's worse than the Old Ghoul. And Akane ."

The young man stared wistfully off into space. "I don't know, Mom.
When she
smiles, it's . I dunno . it's kind of like the whole world lights
up. Gods,
I wish she'd smile more. Her and me . we . I . it's *never* gonna
work out.
She's always hitting me, yelling at me, calling me a pervert, and
she's got
no reason to. She hasn't trusted me once since the day we met and
she always
takes everything the wrong way when it's not my fault."

He looked at his mother, eyes wide. "It just don't seem to matter
what I say
anymore, Mom. I . I . I *killed* for her; what more do I gotta
*do*?" In a
flash Ranma got up and ran upstairs to his room.

Nodoka blinked at the sudden disappearing act, and then glowered
balefully.
Death wasn't good enough for Genma for what he had done to her son.
Maybe
her elder sister could come up with a few creative ideas.
***

Besides the unnecessary projecting in this scene, how did Nodoka
get from
the last Ranma line to her thought path?  I really can't see it.
It's
like: "Apples!  GENMA IS EVIL BASTARD KILL KILL KILL!"  It leaves a
sense
of 'WTF?' going on.

Dracos

A very interesting set of comments, and ones that forces me to
conclude
that you have yet to discern which series this story is crossed over
with.
If this is truly the case, it is a good reminder to me that even if
something seems painfully obvious to one set of readers, it doesn't
necessarily follow that it will be that obvious to others.

Your comment about the (presumably) AMG crossover elements here
doesn't really make sense.  To say, "Well, all those problems you
point out with changed characterization, sudden and complete reversals
in opinion and behavior, and an overall lack of resemblance to the
Ranma characters is okay.  You know why?  Because now these characters
are from a different series which doesn't feature them at all.  So of
course people will be different!  Haha!", well, that in no way fixes
the problem--all it does is make a bunch of new, unrecognizable
characters that don't fit either of the two series you are attempting
to use.

The Ranma 1/2 basis of the story uses the manga characterizations,
in which
the cast are all generally fairly balanced with one or more
obviously
glaring faults. However, one general characteristic of virtually all
manga
characters is their ability to jump immediately to exactly the wrong
conclusion based on a quick initial impression or mistaken idea. I
have
used this tendency and strengthening it where needed based upon the
character's actual background or identity in the story.

You've strengthened it to the point where it is impossible to believe
the portrayed opinions are the result of a quick impression or a
mistaken idea.  There is no confusion on Nodoka's part when she is
thinking about Ranma's behavior, or the behavior of the other
characters in question.  There is no wondering over specific, recent
events.  Instead, her perception of the characters is a very concrete
thing.  Now, if this were not introduced immediately at the beginning
of the story, that would be okay.  If you showed other characters
surprised by Nodoka's strange ideas, giving an outside view of her
beliefs, then you could soften the impact by showing that nobody else
thinks her thoughts are accurate.  You don't do either--you state
these things as fact, when they are not anywhere close to being a fair
and reasonable interpretation of the characters from the manga.

The Nodoka in this story is a perfect example of this. You have
already
noted that her own perception of Ranma does not match the actual
portrayal
of Ranma in the first couple of chapters. Does this also not
strongly imply
that her perception of Genma is equally skewed?  Notice that a scene
with
Genma actually in it has yet to take place, and that the story
hasn't
portrayed Genma in any light except by his absence or through the
perception of others.

The problem with Nodoka's perceptions in a story like this is that if
Nodoka is a goddess and her goddess family have long-held the same
opinions that she is now coming to agree with (about Genma and the
negative influence he has on Ranma), then it's very hard to descredit
those opinions as being uninformed or biased.  With the exception of
Urd's ex-lover in the AMG series, all of the gods/goddess are
sensitive and, overall, responsible.  Urd is mischevous, but never
causes any actual harm.  Belldandy, though she can be jealous, is a
very good judge of people.  Skuld is immature and can get angry at
things she doesn't like, but still is able to work through her problem
and see what's really going on.  Even the demons in AMG are relatively
gentle.  Sure, they cause problems, but they don't run around trying
to kill people.

Nodoka and Happousai don't really fit these models at all.  Happousai
was apparently quite willing to leave Ranma crippled physically for
life during the moxibustion point arc--knowing, no less, that a number
of people would try to kill Ranma.  Nodoka was quite willing to kill
Ranma at several points during the series.  I can't see either one of
them having anything to do with the AMG series with the way they have
been portrayed, and the presumed solidarity that Nodoka's relatives
have in their perception of Genma, which isn't fair to Genma at all,
makes me disbelieve the AMG aspect of this story in its totality.  If
you were crossing the Ranmaverse with some darker series that makes
use of gods or just using general mythology, then I could perhaps go
along with it--though the Ranma aspect of the story would still have
the same problems.

I would suggest you review the section in chapter 1 where Nodoka
talks to
Father on the phone. This contains about the broadest hint as to
which
major series is used for the crossover. I've made no secret in the
writing
that both Nodoka and Mukanjou/Happosai are crossover characters.
I'll add
that Nodoka is playing a part just as much as Mukanjou is, and that
both
their Japanese names are simply nom de guerres. Furthermore, the
meanings
of the Japanese names can be taken as something of a bad joke.

Nodoka and Mukanjou/Happousai are not crossover characters unless they
exist in the other story.  If they did, then you could concievably
pull off the 'Well, they've only been ACTING like that' line, but as
it is, you are suddenly changing the only characterization they have
ever had, and for no apparent reason.  Simply reading the AMG series
makes it quite clear that the goddesses involved have no problem with
their true identities being known--the only one who cares about it is
Keiichi.  This certainly indicates a lack of rules that force the gods
to take on a mortal role.  Why would Nodoka or Happousai be different?

Now, sure, there are reasons you could come up with to explain this
problem...but you're already shoveling so much contrary information at
the reader that everything is piling up higher than suspension of
disbelief can cover.

All of your concerns and confusions regarding Nodoka should
disappear once
you are able to puzzle out her true identity. She is probably the
most
extreme character in the story, but she is actually acting very much
in
accordance with her real nature. There are numerous hints as to who
she
really is (as well as a few misdirections) and I've taken liberties
in
defining Nodoka's family tree, but no more so than was done in the
series
the character uses as an origin.

Well, with the seriousness of this story, I can't really see how you
could possibly fit her into either the AMG or Ranma universes with any
success.  She is nothing like Nodoka from Ranma, and she is nothing
like a goddess from AMG.  She is, however, an annoying character.
It's quite riling to see somebody so harshly judgemental just waltz
into Ranma's life and decide everything's wrong with it and needs to
be fixed, including Ranma himself.  It could be pulled off in an
attempt at humor, but that isn't what you have here.

I'll address the issue of Ranma's reaction to Kuno's sword directly,
because this brings up an interesting cultural point. To my
understanding,
there is a major difference in attacking someone with a katana as
opposed
to a bokken. The amount of physical damage the wielder can actually
do with
either is irrelevant, because we're dealing with intent.

When Kuno attacks Ranma (or whomever) with a bokken, he is trying to
defeat
him in a Martial Arts fight. How badly Ranma might get hurt as a
result is
unimportant, what the intent Kuno is showing is to challenge and
defeat his
opponent using his Art. However, when Kuno attacks Ranma with a
katana, it
means something else entirely. Attacking with a katana (or other
live
blade) shows an intent to kill from the very start. Kuno is no
longer
simply trying to defeat Ranma, he's trying to kill him, period.

This is analogous to someone - who normally tried to beat you up
with his
fists - suddenly pulling out a gun and start shooting at you. He
might or
might not have been trying to kill you with his hands, but you know
damn
well he's after your life with the gun.

Does this help explain Ranma's reactions here?  Kuno has just added
himself
to the list of opponents who are actively trying to kill him -
something he
hasn't had to worry about from Kuno before.  I'd be rather pissed
off
myself in a similar situation.

...um, sure, there's a difference between a bokken and a katana, but
at the very beginning of the manga, Ryouga is throwing around
razor-sharp bandanas that could easily have killed Ranma if they hit.
If you are going to act like a katana is a big deal, then anybody who
has read the manga will realize that Ranma has repeatedly been
attacked by people attempting to kill him.  Shampoo was definitely
using real weapons, yet Ranma never treated her differently--and don't
make try the 'Ranma doesn't hit girls' excuse, because the ONLY time
that ever comes up in the entire manga is when Ranma is fighting
Konatsu, at which time it is obviously intended to be a joke.  He has
never demonstrated any problem with fighting girls in general, and
both Ryouga and Shampoo went from 'non-serious' to 'serious' threats
in exactly the same way that Kuno does in your story.  Neither
intended to kill him in the beginning, yet both clearly attempted to
kill him further on.

Thanks for the comments!

Here are some more for you, which I believe will be just as useful.
^_^


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