Subject: [FFML] Re: C&C [Fanfic][Ranma][Lime] Centaur chapter 4: The Thrill of Victory
From: "andrew norris" <atn6581@silver.sdsmt.edu>
Date: 12/16/1999, 5:09 PM
To: "Vincent Seifert" <seifertv@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu>, "Allyn Yonge" <ayonge@yahoo.com>
CC: <ffml@fanfic.com>

<SNIP>
##Errr, Ranma does do weapons. At least in the Anime I recall him
doing staff-work. ^_^ Very good scene though.

In the manga he used nunchaku to deliberately bruise himself...  :)

I remember that... but, in the 37/38 arc, I think he used the staffs...
(Been a while since I read those... time to get them out of
of the box)

What Ranma is actually opposed to isn't weapons per se, but formal
training in rigid styles with items specifically crafted to be weapons,
particularly kendo, which from the point of view of Musabetsu Kakutou
would seem to be like a bike with nothing but training wheels... but he
expresses himself poorly.  :)  He's also annoyed that his student is
wasting her time with it, and this causes him to exaggerate.
This, I have to disagree with... Ranma's mostly a mixed stylist (Hard/soft
combos) who does use a LOT of Chinese schools...
ALL of them use weapons.  (Tai Chi chuan is one of the better staff and
sword schools.)  He's likey not to use weapons becasue using
them and hiding his real skill is a LOT harder than straight barehands.
(Trust me... faking how good you really are with a sword, is
NOT easy, and Ranma {which I happen to argee with.} has been shown NOT to go
all out, unless he HAS to.  He perfers to go at
a lower skill level.  Which would be harder with weapons...
Weapons Ranma's likey to know... Staff (both Bo and jo.), Sword, Spear, Bow,
tri staff, rope (yes this IS a weapon if used right.) Knives, and more.
However, and THIS is a better reason to dislike Kendo.  IT IS a SPORT form.
NOT a "war" school!  While Kendoists are quite good, they are NOT taught the
real meaning of what swordmanship IS.  I also don't see Akane (taught by
Soun who's a MK master) even really using Kendo... Kenjutsu, yes.  Also, a
LOT of of the mixed and soft styles teach swordmanship... (Akido, Tai Chi
Chuan are the two that strike me.. plus some schools of Capoirea teach
curved swords.)
I also have to argee "rigid" training (which is most martial arts up to dan
rank.) wouldn't be Ranma's style.  BUT I cannot see him downing it for non
DAN rank artists.  Dan rank, sure... I don't think Ranma would think Akane
would be wasting her time with pratcing a sword form... Honing a kata, is
the way you commit the actions to muscle memory...  It's only when you've
made the form or kata instivice that you go out and start to modify it...


     "Maybe it's not Saotome-ryu, but it's definitely part of
Tendo-ryu.  I've always done kendo, and kenjutsu, and kyudo.
Father taught me yari and naginata, too."  Sword, bow, spear, and
polearm: all the old--

     "Weapons."  Ranma's voice was disgusted.  "A true martial
artist doesn't need weapons."


##Ummmm, actually weapons are an extension of the art.
In Chinese styles you can't advance unless you master(I think) sixteen
weapons.
AND during challenges the challenger chooses so the defending master
MUST
know different
weapons or he/she might lose because of unfamiliarity.  Ranma would have
to
be familiar with
weapons if only to defend against them. ^_^
Too True.  Plus Ranma's the ONLY upper level Martist in Nerima (Besides
Genma, if you rank him in that group.) who doesn't USE
Weapons, as a matter of routine.


Oh, yes.  His bouts with Kuno show this, as does his use of, say, Kinjakan
and Gekkaja... but on the other hand, I don't think he's ever shown
practicing with or against weapons.  MK Saotome-ryu seems to prefer
empty-hand and improvised weapons as a matter of principle.

In any case, this is intended to contrast with Akane, who evidently DOES
use and train with weapons, and so might be expected to be better than
Ranma in certain ways, and hence have something to teach him, which is the
point of the story.  Take that away, and there's not much left.  :)

Unlikey.  If you go with Ranma as Martist learner from hell... He sees a
attack, he knows it.  Area where Akane MIGHT be better is the "formal" match
rules.  Ranma's a "street" fighter in that regard... In the full Kendo gear,
yah, Akane's likey to be better for ONE match. That's IT.  (He learns wayyy
too fast.)
     Akane frowned at him.  "You'd better not be saying I'm not a
true martial artist, Ranma.  I don't NEED weapons, and you know
it.  But it's good to be able to use them."

##^_^ There are a lot of stories about weapons masters who are so good
that
they can
use the techniques empty-hand with the same effect as if they were
armed.

I've heard of them, but I'm not familiar with them, so I didn't want to go
there... maybe later.  :)

I've seen a swordmaster pull off some amusing tricks without a sword... but,
he is a Grand Master...
     "Hey, I can use 'em!"

     "No, you just fake it brilliantly.  You'd use them better if
you practiced."  Akane lit up suddenly.  "I could teach you!"

     Ranma snorted.  "Forget it."

     "Scissors stop shinai?  Funny way to play janken," Nabiki
observed, sauntering into the dojo.

##Cute, very well done.

Thanks.  :)

  They'd
disposed of the unconscious youth, but kept his sword.

##Ummm, a killing offense if I'm not mistaken.

Kuno certainly seems to think so.  :)

Act, it's a subtle way of saying that you're not even WORTH killing, also.
It's also a way of saying the person isn't worthy to be Samurai.  Tsk,
Tsk...
(At least that's what I was told...)
     "Uh...."  Ranma glanced at Kuno, then back at Akane.  "Not
here, okay?"  She addressed Kuno.  "Uh, we need to, uh, confer
with our dark master.  We'll be in touch.

##Our dark master will call your dark master and we'll do lunch. ^_^

hehehe!

Cute. But . . .Ranma thinking of something? Hmmm, there may be something
in this 'dark master' stuff.

Yeah, I know.  I thought of writing it with Akane bringing up the matter
of the missing katana, but this way was funnier.

     "It was about yea long," Ranma said with great restraint,
gesturing with her hands.  "It had a red scabbard, a bronze
tsuba, red cord, and white sharkskin.  IT WAS THE ONLY GODDAMN
KATANA AT OUR WEDDING, YOU OLD FOOL!"

##^_^ (I don't recall, what about Nodoka?)

She doesn't carry it around any more.  If I understand correctly, she was
only carrying it around in order to fulfill her duty as kaishaku in case
she ran into her husband and son; now that the seppuku pledge is no longer
an issue, she leaves it at home.

Humm... didn't she carry it after 36? Unless you figured that she was toting
it around to keep Genma from Pawning it...

     "A good wife knows to extract any odd sums her husband might
be holding out," Nodoka continued blithely.  Ranma and Akane
renewed their glares at Genma.  "But only when the needs of the
household require it, of course.  Otherwise it's best to leave
them a little, dear."  She patted Akane on the arm and smiled
confidentially.  "In this case, I was able to retire some old
debts.  Why, is there a problem?"

##Very nice.

Thanks.  The economics of the Saotome household have come up before, and
will come up again...

*Bwhahaha* Doesn't Ranma and Akane own both houses? (One of my fav. rants,
is WHY R&A are going to get married first, or Akane HAS to wait til Ranma
marries a diff Tendo...)
     "We won't be long," Akane assured him, looking around.  A
spear on the wall caught her attention.  "Um, about this
yari...."

     "Not for sale," the pawnbroker said.

     "Too bad.  It's made in the old way, and it's seen some
fighting, but it sure doesn't look as old as it must be... and it
doesn't look like a fake, either."

     The man straightened, regarding Akane with more respect.
"You have good eyes, Ojou-san.  That's just about what the
appraiser said.  My father bought that near the end of the war.
He told me not to sell it; said it was good luck."

##Nice. VERY nice.

Also a reference to one of my other stories, which no one has commented on
yet, so I'll drop the hint.  :)

     "Oh, God," Sato moaned.  "Tendo Kasumi's sister and Saotome
Nodoka's daughter-in-law.  'Trouble' doesn't begin to cover it.
I'm going to hell for this, I just know it."

##LOL. VERY, VERY nice.

heh.  And people think Nabiki is scary... :)

Nah, be afraid of those japanese housewifes... Very afraid.

<Snip>
     "Ukyo's spatula is different.  You can hit with the flat of
it, and she usually does.

##It's still metal. Try hitting an apple or coconut with a frying pan.
HARD.

Yeah, but Ranma's head is harder.  :)

 But a katana is all about wounding and
killing.  It's the principle of the thing."

##Ummmm, there are quite a few martial artist that would
argue that.  Also, Musashi Miyamoto, perhaps Japan's or the world's
greatest swordsman, won many of his battles with a wooden sword.
In fact he smashed the head of one opponent with a wooden sword he
carved from a oar on the way to the duel. A bokken is a deadly weapon,
in
some ways more dangerous than steel. One of the advantaged of wood is
that
your opponents steel sword will stick in the wood, giving you a
momentary
advantage
over your opponent.

True, and I've read the book and seen the movies (out on DVD now!).  But
in the Ranma manga, there seems to be a line drawn between the seriousness
of a katana and a bokken (Ranma's a lot more frightened of Nodoka's steel
than Tatewaki's wood, for example).  Kuno's bringing a katana to the
wedding in v38 has to mean something, or why would Takahashi draw it that
way?  It's not consistent, mind you, but it's there.

Simple, A Katana is ONLY used for killing.  Simple, ne?  While a Bokken is a
"deadly" weapon, it's PRIMARY use is for a non leathel spar or match.
Katanas are brought out when the person wants someone DEAD.  (No
disargeement that a bokken can kill... it's just far easier with a Katana.)

     The fair Tendo Akane also wore kimono for the occasion.
Tatewaki's eyes narrowed as he noticed that the cut of her
sleeves and the placement of her obi and cord were more
appropriate for a young wife than the innocent girl he knew her
to be.  Clearly she was suffering from some delusion.

##Good.

Thank C. L. Morgan for that; her comments on aspects of chapter 3 were
very enlightening.

     This unfroze Kuno, and he laughed.  "Nay, surely thou art
jesting!  How can a sightless man serve as a witness?  It flies
in the face of all good sense."

##In which case Kuno's probably got enough frequent flyer miles
to go to Mars.

hehehe!  Yeah, something like that.

     "Well, as I recall it, it was Akane and I who clobbered you
and took the katana away," the pigtailed girl drawled.  "You sure
you wouldn't rather fight us again for it?"

##Ummm, I can't quite see Ranma drawling. And this seems a little
to grammatical for Ranma. ^_^ (but I suppose he's changed a bit now
that he's married)

Nodoka's influence, and Akane's, and the improved environment of St.
Hebereke's, all contribute to that.  But I'll consider a better verb.

     "Kuno-kun."  Kuno turned to see that Akane had approached
him.  She stared up at him with eyes grim beyond her years.
"Kuno-kun, you can play with bokken

##Ummm, I know they play with it in Ranma Anime/Manga but, really,
bokken is a deadly weapon.

Sure.  As Ranma says, Kuno chops down trees with it.  But there's still a
difference in seriousness; Akane doesn't mind Kuno attacking Ranma, but
she finds genuine intent-to-kill... annoying.

And so does Ranma.
all you like, but I warn you
not to use steel, now or in the future.  If you wound him, I will
wound you.  If you kill him, I promise that I will kill you...
slowly."

##Nice meter. Generally there's not much wounding involved in a duel
with katana. Usually begins and ends with one stroke. IF Kuno used steel
and IF Ranma were unlucky he'd probably end up dead or missing an arm
or leg. (Bokken's a little better. He'll probably survive unless Kuno
hits
head or spine) IMO Akane would be more likely to::

" . . .if you use steel, now or in the future, I'll kill you."

OR

" . . .if you use steel, now or in the future, I'll hurt you so
badly your grand children will be born crippled."

heh.  I'll think about those, thanks.

Nah, why let the fool breed?

     Nodoka let out a breath.  "I do hope you're right, dear.
Oh, if only you were with child...."  It took all of Akane's self-
control to prevent a facefault.

##<eeeeep> Please don't use "facefault". Especially in a story as well
written as this one.

Aw, c'mon, just one?  :)

     "Oi!  Over here!" he called, beckoning.  Another bush met a
premature end, and another, and another, as Ranma led Kuno in a
wholesale slaughter of the landscaping.  Then Ranma sailed over
Kuno in an elegant layout flip and scampered back towards the
audience.

##Oooops. Bad move. Once in the air he can't change direction
or use his full force in an attack. Worst of all, if Kuno were to raise
his blade, Ranma might just end up eviscerating himself.

Yeah, he's showing his contempt for Kuno.  But he can easily leap high
enough to clear Kuno's reach.

##Overall:: VERY, VERY good. Some rough spots, in comparison
with the rest of the story. A few technical errors. (Some of which are
debatable) All in all a superior read.

Thanks, glad you liked it.  And thanks for the extensive comments!  I'll
see what I can do to remedy the deficiencies you're pointed out.

Vince Seifert    Fanfic Analyst   FFIRC Frog
Prime:  seifertv@csus.edu
Backup: seifertv@myrealbox.com
Techie: http://webpages.csus.edu/~seifertv/
Fanfic: http://www.csus.edu/indiv/s/seifertv/toth/
Ideas are worth their weight in gold.


Andrew



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