At 12:27 AM 9/19/1997 +0800, demonsword@vasia.com wrote:

From: Caroline Seawright <caseawr@ecr.mu.oz.au>

Actually, no. At least, not anymore. PUBLIC pride is still
important, but the character of the Japanese spirit seems
to have degraded since the olden days. Take for example
all the highschool students who are entering into prostitution.
Of course, this does not apply to everyone in Japan, but
it is a change from before.
At least, that's what I've heard and noticed.

How is that so different from when young children used to be sold to
geisha or cortesian house. 

The difference is that these young children CHOSE to enter

And they're nowhere near as young either.

into the foray. They weren't used, forced or sold into it. Furthermore,
they do not enter into the geisha for life; rather, they still live
their old life but enter into prostitution "momentarily", perhaps
as a sideline or for the experience.

Sounds like an upgrade from the old system to me.

By the way, I heard that a lot of geishas don't prostitute but do other
hostess stuff (music, tea ceremonies, flower arranging, etc.).  One of them
was in the news a while ago because she's over 100 and now the world's
oldest geisha, so there must be a lot more to it than sex if she's still at
it, I guess.

In fact, these youths normally do not allow their exploits to be
publically known. Around the Net you will find websites with
the Asian teenagers having inquiries such as, "Do you 
know these people? If so, call xxx-xxxx." I am not sure if this is
an act of trying to get the youths out of the business or if it
is to find and prosecute them, but the fact that ignorance exists 
shows that these youths are keeping their activities secret.

I believe this custom was still going right up till westerners came ... 
it has just changed after Japan became westernised, it seems. 
I don't think that it has "degraded" any. But, then, it's all to do 
with your attitude, I guess... The western attitude seems the be 

My attitude, or anyone's, for that matter, has nothing to do with it. 
It is my observation, based on a sociological analysis of Japanese
and Asian society. 

Oh, and in case you didn't know, I am also not a Westerner. I have
nothing against eastern nations so if you are assuming that I am 
putting Japan down in order to uplift the image of Western nations, 
do not. It is simply what I have noticed, and it is happening not only 
in Japan, but all around the South East Asian region (and most of Asia).

I heard it's still a lot worse in Thailand, though.

that sex is sinful, on the whole, so I'm assuming that this is where 
this "degrated" word came from? 

The word "degraded" came from the idea that the ancient
Japanese looked down upon prostitution because of their
strong pride in their lineage. The Japanese believe that
they were descended from the gods. To be degraded to
such a lowly practice is almost unthinkable and cannot
be met with any honor. This piece of knowledge was summoned

>from history books.

Although western culture forced Japanese to become ashamed 
(or something) by sex, I don't think that they would call it "degraded".

*shrug*

Western culture DID NOT force the Japanese to became ashamed
of sex. Furthermore, in light of the historical facts, it IS degraded.

I also heard that the treatment of homosexuality was a lot different before
the past few centuries (sort of the same attitude as ancient Greece had but
I'm not sure if the Japanese version banned man-boy rape or accepted it like
the Greek version did), then either missionaries started their campaigns or
one of the local military leaders pressured more people to produce more
future soldiers or both or something.  Shrug.

Especially since most of the highschool girls offer their, uh, services
to western tourists. Japanese have a strong sense of pride as a

Hmm...including soldiers?  That might make a difference in attitudes too.

people, and they look down upon the gaijins. That their youth would
be willing to partake of an institution such as this with gaijins is
definitely a sign of a lowering of standards (i.e. - degradation).
*shrug*