Subject: Re: Challenge accepted - and countered.
From: Nightelf
Date: 4/28/1996, 11:32 PM
To: fanfic@fanfic.com

On Sun, 28 Apr 1996, Ryan Mathews wrote:

You wrote: 

After all this, the question still comes to me:  Why did you say what 
you said earlier?  What's wrong with adding a little more depth to a 
character, especially when such depth is hinted at in the anime & 
manga?

I don't have a problem with it.  I just don't believe that true depth 
*is* hinted at in the RANMA 1/2 anime or manga, at least from what I've 
seen of it.  Remember, depth does not equal emotions.  Characters can 
scream with emotion and still be as shallow as a puddle.  "Depth" 
refers to a character having secondary motivations that lie beneath the 
superficial ones.

Then...by all means...tell me what secondary motives are hinted at with 
the Dirty Pair.  To be honest, the scene from 005 doesn't particularly 
strike me as a reaction from a complex character...getting drunk after 
such an event doesn't really show me that much about the character.  


Using that definition, the only characters in RANMA 1/2 with any depth 
at all are Ranma and Akane.  Both have the superficial motivation of 
wanting their lives back as they were before they met, but below the 
surface both love each other and are motivated to keep rivals away.  
Still, this isn't much depth, because it's simply one simple motivation 
under another simple motivation.  I'll bet you given enough time, I 
could program an A.I. to produce Ranma fanfic outlines.  The characters 
are that easy to describe.

That would be an interesting AI to see, because, chances are, they'd be 
really _bad_ Ranma 'fics.

Okay...ignoring Ranma and Akane, because that would take too long and 
you've already agreed to the depth...

Tendo Nabiki:  This would ordinarily be considered a real challenge, 
because she's often portrayed as a one-dimensional ice queen, out to get 
as much money as possible.  
Manga vol. 22: After Nodoka first shows up, Ranma and Akane talk with 
Nabiki, expecting her to need to be paid for her silence.  Nabiki, 
surprisingly, says she won't make any money off of this.  Why?  Her mother.
She remembers what it was like to lose a mother, and will not interfere.  
She does urge Ranma to tell Nodoka, however.  Still waters run deep...

Tendo Kasumi:  Equally challenging.  She appears to be the quiet, proper 
Japanese daughter...quiet, non-threatening, obedient.
Manga vol. 1:  This could be chalked up to not fully formed characters, but 
Kasumi-oneechan says some pretty strong things in this...first, telling 
how younger men bore her, then, once the clan finds out about Ranma's 
curse, starts yelling at Mr. Saotome for doing such a stupid thing.
Manga vol. 33:  Apparantly there's a fire beneath that gentle exterior.  
Everyone in the house, save Kasumi, ends up meeting at the shopping center 
and eating...after Kasumi made such a nice dinner...When they got home, 
they noticed a few things broken.  This makes the clan _really_ 
nervous...apparantly when Kasumi gets angry, she gets destructive.
So...they go out of their way to cheer her up.  

Hibiki Ryouga: Not too difficult.  With the exception of Ranma & Akane, 
Ryouga gets the most exposure -  either as P-chan or his normal form.
He is, in many ways, a tragic hero - an honorable man, with a couple of 
serious faults.  He loves Akane...but can't bring himself to tell her 
about P-chan...or his love.  Eventually, he finds Akari - seemingly the 
perfect woman for him.  She loves pigs...he is one (and she knows about 
it).  He hates Ranma - and would see him dead, if he could.  However, he 
will not try to use dishonorable methods to defeat Saotome...even if he 
does use dishonorable methods to be with Akane (as P-chan).  A powerful 
mix of love, honor, fear, and anger.
Manga vol. 25: Toward the end of the Musk Dynasty saga, the Kaisuihuu, 
the kettle Ranma needs to change back into a man, falls down deep into 
the earth.  Ryouga, who had come along to find a possible cure and to get 
rid of Ranma, went down after it, risking his own life in the process. 

Kuonji Ukyou: Here's a woman...sorta...with a checkered past.  For the 
past ten years, she has lived her life as a man...after a certain someone 
ran out on an engagement.  Then...after a decade, she goes after him - 
for revenge.  She fights with him...and falls in love with him.  Like 
Ranma, she ends up spending time on both sides of the fence...going to
school as a man...working at the restaurant as a woman.  She is bound by 
family honor to live as a man, but now is starting to explore those 
feelings long buried within her.  An interesting portrait of a woman 
discovering herself.  The appearance of Konatsu in Manga vol. 35 provides
an interesting companion for her - a man forced to live as a woman for 
his entire life up to that point.

Saotome Nodoka: Anyone with the strength to marry Genma has to be one 
formidable woman.  Like the others, she is a special mix of love and 
honor.  She wishes desperately to see her son.  One problem, though: 
she's heard rumors of less-than-manly activity from him, and, by the oath 
that Ranma and Genma swore when they left her, if Ranma was not raised to 
be a "man among men", the family would commit suicide.  She scares the 
heck out of "Ranko" in Manga vol. 22 when she draws her katana in her sleep, 
crying in her dream that Ranma isn't a "man among men".  In other words, 
she'd probably force them to their promise, if she found out.  She loves 
her son...there is no question of that...but, if she found out, what would 
win out?  Love or honor?  Of course, the irony in the relationship 
between "Ranko" and Nodoka is that, while Nodoka wants Ranma to act 
manly, she tries to get "Ranko" to act more womanly.     

Ninomiya Hinako: You may find it strange that I would mention this 
character, as she never appeared in the manga until vol. 25 and never in 
the anime until the OVAs.  Nevertheless, this is a fascinating 
character.  An adult...and a child.  
Manga vol. 27:  Her and Soun start a relationship.  I haven't had the 
chance to study this story yet, but it looks fascinating...and 
apparantly has a lot to say about both characters (regrettably, I know 
very little Japanese...in order to study a story in depth, I use a 
dictionary).
Manga vol. 30:  She finds some "Fighting fish" and uses them to stay in 
adult form, which she tends to prefer (her child-form oftentimes acts 
her physical age).  She finds out something frightening to herself: she 
can't stay responsible at all times.  After awhile, she finds herself 
doodling, playing video games, watching TV...eventually, she learns to 
balance the two sides of herself.

I'll concede on the Kunos...they are pretty much one-dimensional characters.
The Chinese characters (i.e. Shampoo, Mousse, and Cologne) I'm not too 
sure about...I don't like the characters that much, because they do seem 
a little flat.  Hence, I have never really focused on them in my 'fics.
Shampoo will play a decent role in "The Circe Project", a BGC/Ranma 
x-over I'm working on, but she will be older, wiser, and a widow...
Anyone wishing ot make a defence of these characters may do so at their 
leisure.

I'd love to hear a similar defence of Kei and Yuri...


There's clearly a depth of emotion to these characters, all too often 
sacrificed in the name of humor.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but RANMA 1/2 is a slapstick comedy.  
It's supposed to be funny.  :-)  Again, emotions are not what I'm 
referring to when I say "depth".

Well...if that's all you think, then you haven't seen or read much Ranma.
Explain to me how the following stories are slapstick:
Anime: The One to Carry On:  A&R lose the dojo, and must retrain 
themselves - and learn to work with each other - in order to win it back.
Anime & Manga: The Shinnosuke episodes.  Akane goes away to make amends 
for an earlier promise not yet kept.  She finds the young man who saved 
her life - dying from the injuries.  She decides to comfort him...and try 
to find a cure for him...with the possible cost being Ranma's love.  
Eventually, A&R are forced into a desperate fight - one in which they 
are asked to make the ultimate sacrifice for each other.
Manga vol. 22: (Nodoka) Ranma's mother comes to visit.  Ranma wants to 
tell her who he/she is, but has difficulty finding the courage - even 
after saving her life.
Manga vol. 24: The Musk Dynasty.  Ranma gets cursed permanently, then is 
forced into a fight to the death against a powerful opponent to get her 
manhood back.  A powerful Takahashi story...and, in my opinion, one of 
the best.
Manga vol. 28: An imposter claiming to be Ranma Saotome introduces
himself to Nodoka - with onna-Ranma watching.  Ranma must expose the 
imposter - without exposing himself.
Manga vol. 36: Nodoka comes to visit the dojo...and starts putting the 
pieces together.  Eventually, the truth comes out...
Manga vol. 37-38: Ranma and co. must go back to China to save Jusenkyo.  
Shampoo and Genma are brainwashed against the Jusenkyo crew, and Saffron 
is no slouch in the villain department.  Akane is thought dead for a 
time...   


I can understand if you are angered with the flood of Ranma 'fics, but 
if you are going to argue against it, use arguments that actually show 
how it detracts from the fanfic art, rather than some excuse such as 
the idea that the depth given the characters we invent and should not 
be invented.    

First, I'm not angry.  I could care less, actually, since I'm not a big 
enough fan of RANMA to bother reading those 'fics.  I don't mean to 
upset anyone; after all, if you didn't like DIRTY PAIR, I wouldn't 
expect to read my DP stories.


You give what you get, boyo.  Read the 'fics, make comments on them, and 
maybe your name will get noticed more on the ML and RAAC.  I try to 
comment whenever I can (not an easy task, at the moment).

Second, if you want an argument about how the RANMA flood might detract 
from the fanfic art, all I can say is that too much of anything 
detracts.  My number one goal is to get people to read my work, and to 
accomplish that, I need people reading fanfic.  If potential readers 
who aren't RANMA fans log onto r.a.a.c and for days see nothing but 
RANMA 1/2 stories, some of them are going to quit.  It helps everyone 
to have a wide variety of universes for the reader to choose from.


No offence, boyo, but have you seen the number of other 'fics on RAAC 
right now?  There's a pretty decent number of other ones...Sailor Moon, 
DBZ, and KOR 'fics come to mind.

BTW, is the Flight 005 Conspiracy the one with Kei thinking Yuri dead, 
her getting totally plastered, and this guy with her taking her drink 
>from her...and dying as a result?  It's been awhile.

That's the one.  It's the best example I could come up with for DIRTY 
PAIR "depth" on short notice.  It's a sub-optimal example, but it did 
show that devil-may-care Kei was capable of being deeply touched by the 
deaths of those around her.  (And I'm not talking about Yuri; that's 
was all an act.)

Let's see...have you seen the one where Ranma & co. are mourning Akane's 
death?  Ranma, in my opinion, gives a more realistic reaction than Kei.
He's just _numb_.  He should be in a world of hurt from the fight, but he 
can't feel anything, he's so in shock from Akane's death. 


------RM


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Nightelf - nwl9354@tam2000.tamu.edu
"Open up your mind, let your fantasies unwind..."
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